Friday Fire: Is There Hope For Jason Whitlock’s Writing?

jason_whitlock.jpg
Star spangled bojangler?

Yeah, so dude came on the site yesterday but disappeared as fast as Fox’s cash…

I’ll let you all finish the rest.

Anyway, journalism is going through a revolutionary period and one can only predict the outcome when the bandages come off and the tissue regenerates.

Some of you don’t think Jason Whitlock is worth the time. You all know me, so the solutions are what I’m interested in.

Real Rap: If it wasn’t for Whitlock, we would not have been mentioned on ESPN yesterday–at least not in a social context.

I understand there are folks who think that mention was not a big deal. What I would say is any mention that includes TSF in a national scope is obviously advantageous.

Jason has initialized a disgustion (no typo) on the finer yet dichotomous points of right and a wrong way journalism and it’s time to start discourse that gets us out of this stench.

Don’t get it twisted, there’s nothing soft about this post. Love the discussions going on around here.

We provide the content, but you all bring the fire.

Keep it professional people ;)

Give us something good here.

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181 Responses to “Friday Fire: Is There Hope For Jason Whitlock’s Writing?”

  1. That horse is out the barn and off the farm.

    This is a society that no longer values civility. It is not enough to merely be right or fair or even reasoned.

    Even in discourse, you must win with style.

    Not that I am not guilty, because I am.

    It is almost as though discourse is graded, not on sound reasoning, but on your ability to shame your opponent or your conversational companion into silent agreement.

    So Jason Whitlock becomes Uncle Ruckus when merely exposing him as disingenuous and poorly reasoned would suffice.

    you dont fighting fire with fire unless you wish to only replace their fire with your own.

  2. It’s situations like this that I believe the NABJ should step in. If you look on news message boards, ESPN’s boards for example, you would read many arguments over the media’s treatment of stories. African Americans saying the media misrepresents them, while whites claim in response that this is just another play of the race card. Or when African American writers speak about racial issues they are “race baiters.” It sickens me when I see people respond to stories in that manner.

    I believe that the NABJ should do a in depth study on how the media represents its stories. Why are we still hearing about Natalie Halloway, and nothing more on the Maryland student who went missing? Why is Josh Hancock’s drunk driving accident such a sad, tragic story, but Eddie Griffin was a trouble person with a checked past? Why doesn’t the media take the Sean Taylor situation and go more in depth with all the player robberies we have had in the past two years? Why was the Asian killer at VA Tech a horrible person, but the Omaha killer was a sad story of a “lost puppy” teen? (It pissed me off when one reporter made it seem so troubling that he lost his job at McDonalds and was dumped by his girl…all during the holiday season…sob sob I cried…) These are just examples of questions that need to be asked of today’s media machine because minority communities need some answers NOW!!!

    The NABJ should really step in an investigate writers such as Whitlock and how they go about their business. Being critical of your community is one thing, but what he does….nah that’s something that’s on a whole other plane. He honestly gives those who hate for no reason ammunition to say “Look, even your own writier thinks you are niggers!”

    Maybe I’m navie…I don’t know. But the NABJ should take a good look at what is going on in the media today, and produce a concrete study that says “LOOK, these discrepancies are real and not made up!!!!” We all know that…but honestly I just don’t think white people understand or care to…

    Damn I just went on a rant…I’ll get off the soapbox…

  3. Geez, forget the black KKK. Try the black gestapo. You brothers are awful quick to turn on another brother just because he disagrees with you. Think about it. Whitlock may have been reactionary, but at root level he is crying out against black-on-black violence. This is not a bad thing. There were legitimate reasons to think that Taylor may have been targeted specifically by somebody with a score to settle, given the previous break in. Whitlock at worst is guilty of kneejerk thinking. You guys are turning the poor brother into a white man tool house nigga. That’s crazy. You seem more pissed off by Whitlock than you are the actual murderers here. Has any one of you expressed any anger at all toward the heartless hellbound bastards who saw fit to murder a man for his possessions??? All this rage directed at Whitlock is so misguided. Look for some forgiveness in your hearts. Your obsession with Jason is starting to get embarrassing. Most of you people here moaning about him are playing more into the angry negro stereotype than Whitlock is playing into the house nigger stereotype. Give it a rest people. Don’t be so vicious, so full of misguided and unproductive anger.

  4. How ironic is it that such a disrespectful, least-self-respecting men gets you a big mention on the Worldwide Leader? Y’all deserve all the credit y’all get. I get a dose of truth here, and lots of insight in the comments……..and the trolls are spectacularly bland and homerific.

  5. Cevidence Says:

    Nicole –

    Did you read Whitlock’s article on why the NFL needs to lesson the number of African American players and start to make their rosters “whiter”? Yeah you read that right. The NFL should stop letting so many African Americans play the game. That is just one example. This goes far beyond just the Sean Taylor incident, which he is not the only wrong doer….

    Check out some of his work…

  6. and it’s not just Whitlock. it’s Mushnick, Mike and the Mad Dog. the whole bloody lot of them.

    I have no problem with criticism, if it’s constructive and reasoned. but this? this is ridiculous. I think the only punishment fitting for Whitlock is being locked in a room with nothing but Ralph Wiley and Bill Rhoden columns.

  7. I have a serious question….

    What is this site’s proposed solution to the “Whitlock problem?”

    Are you out to change Whitlock’s mind about the issues in his columns? If his views are honestly held, then it is unlikely you’ll have much success there. A man has a right to his viewpoints, whatever they may be.

    Are you out to get him fired? That would also seem a stretch, and a tad juvenile. Lobbying for the dismissal of someone from their job, just because of differing viewpoints and a different sense of how they ought to be doing their job, seems a bit much. Whitlock hasn’t broken any laws and he hasn’t libeled anyone in his columns. A columnist is paid to be opinionated and somewhat controversial; he isn’t paid to be fair. Fairness might be admirable, but it isn’t required, especially in an opinion writer. Fairness is also a very subjective thing, hardly measurable by a single standard of judgment.

    Are you out to make him feel guilty, and get him to apologize for hurting someone’s feelings? Referring back to my first point, it seems unlikely that he’ll offer any show of contrition or retraction if what he writes is truly a reflection of what he believes.

    Are you out to get him symbolically disbarred from his racial/ethnic group by encouraging others to regard him as some buffoonish cartoon who’s unworthy of his own skin color? That smacks of a requirement that all people of a certain race or ethnicity subscribe to identical sets of social and political points of view. How immature is that? Every individual is just that, an individual, with as much right to his own worldview as any other. Labeling Whitlock a race-traitor assumes that the majority of a race not only subscribes to a certain set of views but that they’ve also enacted some sort of enforcable code of behavior. As a Republican, I’m constantly accused of being in rigid lockstep behind Christian ideology, blah, blah, blah. But it sounds to me like some people of a particular group want all others in the group to get in step behind them. What about the principle of freedom and the right to choose one’s own path in life?

    If you hate Whitlock and what he writes, fine. Trash him until you’re blue in the keyboards. But it sounds like you’re pining for a time when all writers adhere to a set of standards and principles that get dictated by…. whom, exactly, I’m not sure. You’re journalists, here, yet you’re trying to trample all over another journalist’s right to practice the craft the way he wants. Does the principle of a free press ring a bell? If Whitlock’s views run counter to yours, then you’ve done the American thing; you’ve erected a website where you can fire back. I’m rather surprised that you don’t enjoy the combat. I’d bet Whitlock does.

    Again, serious question: For a writer who writes “the solutions are what I’m interested in,” what solutions to Whitlock are you proposing?

  8. I think Whitlock needs to be shamed. Publicly shamed, because I don’t think he even believes half the stuff he writes, he just knows his inflammatory posts will get him hits on his website and invitations to tv shows.

    I think that is where people are angry at Whitlock, he saying what he says for money, not because he really believes it.

  9. I think that somebody in this thread is trying to impersonate me.

    Of course there is room for criticisim, but J. Whitlock seems to always hit a nerve with me. Of course we are upset about murderers and rapist. We are abled to distinguish black criminals from black people in general. We know the difference. Whitlock seems hateful to me. He just rubs me the wrong way.

  10. Thanks for that Will. Nicole the first NICOLE isn’t you? Wow, these cats are getting creative.

    I want to make something clear. This is not about Jason Whitlock the person. I don’t know him so attacking him personally would be immature as well as irresponsible.

    This is all about his writing. Take that however you want.

    Someone has to ask the questions and it might as well be TSF.

    Yes, we have freedom of speech in this society and Jason certainly takes advantage of his rights to the fullest.

    My problem with Jason Whitlock’s writing is the implementing of Hip Hop and the Black KKK into his pieces ad nauseam.

    He’s making the wrong people clap.

    Honestly, there are some of Jason’s opinions I agree with and if spoken in the proper forum, he might be able to do some “constructive damage”.

    That is my aim.

    Go to the ‘hood Jason and help start a drive for solutions–if this is youraim.

    Jason was very instrumental in making the MSM take notice that the witch hunt surrounding Barry Bonds was ludicrous and straight up deceitful.

    He is the celebrity spokesman for Big Brothers Big Sisters in Kansas City. I applaud him for this because he’s doing more than a whole lot of folk.

    Giving his time to help out our youth is truly commendable and cannot be easily dismissed.

    When Blacks see his face on television it inspires people to action–whether we agree with him or not. That’s very important.

    Jason, again whether you like him or not, has a powerful voice. That was evident a long time before all the controversy swirling him presently.

    I ask you all, is there a difference in his voice now and in this interview (Oct. ’06)?

    (The interview was done via email so I couldn’t snap back with questions about the Black KKK even though I strongly wanted to.)

    Do you think he’s changed his voice? Thought so.

    Jason has to be taken seriously. He has become a dangerous entity in journalism. While he does criticize Whites, he doesn’t seem to come with the same full force he does with Blacks. He is writing for MSM outlets and I find this very distressing. He has to understand he is driving a huge wedge between Blacks and Whites. If you read the subsequent comments after his work, you will see how sick tongued some of these “people” are. They say some of the most vile and despicable bs I have ever seen–all in the defense of Jason who strokes their own self interests.

    He is the Black KKK.

    He’s becoming Clayton Bigsby, (not safe for work) but this bs ain’t funny.

    For those who think i am piling on Jason, you must understand sites like this, Temple3, SOMM, Cosellout, Mindrite Sports, Black Mystory, Edge of Sports, Stop Mike Lupica,The Black Fives, MCBias and others are here as a check and balance. If Jason was permitted to run wild with his rhetoric, things would be absolutely ridiculous.

    I’m an eternal optimist, but I also am a realist. This is an important time, and I would be remiss not to take the proper shots at whomever is doing a disservice to ALL people.

  11. Will B., fake ass NICOLE , The InkogNegro
    My steel was forged in personal struggle with direct gestapo police assault and racist media propoganda, as well as the real life and death living in Azania back in the ‘80’s.

    One of the battle cry was take the gate keepers out first. This way you somewhat limit the reach of the “anti nigger machine”. Any student of war fare knows that the most telling part of war is the testing, probimg and infiltrating across friednly lines.

    This was why the collaborators were given necklaces as a reminder that worse than enemy assault is selling us out and giving the enemy greater inroads into our defenses.

    Our story and his-story has proven that Jason is not the first and not the last wooden horse to our city of Troy. During the sixties many have given the system a foot up in crashing the peoples liberation activities – and not just African people.

    Jason is a tool to be used by the system to be thrown away when his usefullness is completed. Many of us here at TSF has had our issues with what we felt was the consistancy of Jamele Hill’s writing. But she has shown more balls than Whitlock in coming here taking bombs and not backing down. Through that she had developed an overstanding of just how we feel about the MSM reporting from the outher side.

    And Mrs. Hill never defecated on us like Whitlock is doing. One can only diologue with people who first are interested and second who show willingness to DIALOGUE and hear other people point of view. If you or I are always right then there can never be any meaningful understanding. You ask for solution? Check the archive, solutions galore. What is Jason Whitlocks solution? Make the NFL whiter? Target Hip Hop and thus to eliminate it…because that is the natural follow up.

    I don’t think we are wasting an inordinate amount of time on Whitlock, because he is now being portrayed as the voice of reason, bridging the divide between the two most prominent ethnic groups in this caste system.

    *** A word of caution…just because I mentioned ourstory of necklaces, don’t get foolish and say I am advocating things I have not advocated, and don’t create impressions that TSF advocates harming anyone. I am putting it out there that every other ethnic groups have chosen to (a) dialogue (b) demand accountability and (c) remove-by all means necessary, those that do a dis-service to the greater body.

    This is the unifying mentality that Lastpoet refers to. It is our right as free people to question any incindary comments that wil put our coummunity in peril from a corporation that HAS and still promote genocide of African people.

  12. Why must we offer a solution for what Whitlock does? Isn’t pointing out the fallacy in his logic solution enough? I can criticize President Bush, but what solutions can I offer to fix the problems he’s created.

    That whole “offer a solution” spiel is stupid.

  13. So simply criticizing anyone is the answer?

    If that’s the case things will never get done.

    There must be more than just talk or no one will be taken seriously.

    I’m hoping this will be a discussion people will want to read. Judging the collective intelligence here, I know that will be the case.

  14. Im not exactly sure what prompted Sankofa to include me with those who back Whitlock.

    My issue with this forum’s treatment of Whitlock doesnt stem from the conflict, it stems from the way we return fire with fire.

    If you look at Whitlock’s responses in the interview you read a coherent, passionate alternative viewpoint. Do I agree?

    Not entirely.

    Is it completely without merit?

    No. it isn’t

    As a charter member of the HipHop generation, I often take to task those who cashed in our culture at the risk of its authenticity.

    We are reaping the unintended consequences of that financial transaction.

    when you turn over control of your culture…you are no longer in control of what it produces.

    HipHop is not responsible for Sean Taylor’s death. The forces that profit from HipHop and saturate its landscape with self-destructive images in a gun riddled and materialistic larger society that values wealth over life and virtue.

    What makes Whitlock’s latest star-turn so maddening is that, as Mizzo so articulated above, Whitlock hasn’t always been on this hustle.

    As I stated above…ours is a society built on conflict.

    not debate….conflict.

    Whitlock, like it or not, has a place at the table. He has earned it.
    His current hustle notwithstanding, Jason Whitlock has paid dues in the journalism community.

    I believe that he works the system to keep the checks coming, either
    oblivious to the collateral damage he wreaks with his needlessly inflammatory tone (which i doubt) or entranced with his new found stardom (I know you all see it)

    The SOLUTION?

    We must spend more time articulating the TRUTH and less time feeding the ego of the demagogue by childishly namecalling and caricaturing.

    If we spent half the energy we spend responding to Jason Whitlock on re-educating the larger society on what’s REALLY going on, we would make much more progress.

  15. “If we spent half the energy we spend responding to Jason Whitlock on re-educating the larger society on what’s REALLY going on, we would make much more progress.”

    I agree 100%, but we still need to watch out for those that would demonize us.

    And inkognegro, my bad, i was being sloppy including you in my post.

  16. Yeah you all are beginning to get it. It’s irresponsible to say that Whitlock and his ilk are the cause for all that ails us.

    No one is saying that.

    Obviously this is what I personally want, but I would love for Jason Whitlock to come to Philly, or Chicago, or New Orleans, or Dat Dude’s hometown of Compton and just speak to the people.

    He’s putting himself out their socially so whassup?

    Calling out Hip Hop is not the answer. There are many problems within our society and we all know hip hop (the negative force) isn’t the only one.

    Some folk in the middle America have no interaction with Blacks Jason and your words are their education.

    That ain’t right bruh.

  17. Calling out and obsessing on Jason Whitlock is not the answer either. Let’s move on and give the brother a break, people, pleasee.

  18. Can someone find where I advocated “whitening” the NFL? I spelled out in a column that the behavior of some black players and the attitude that some black players bring to these leagues are causing the “whitening” of NFL rosters. I offered us a warning, tried to tell us what we need to do to protect the high-paying jobs we’ve earned. Black NFL coaches thanked me for the article, called me at home to do it.

    Is there a comprehension problem with the people who post on this site?

  19. Jason thanks for coming on. You do understand how your words get lost in blaming Hip Hop and using such a term that conjures images of death (Black KKK), correct?

  20. Can someone find where I advocated “whitening” the NFL?

    And is there a comprehension problemw witht he people who post on this site?

    Maybe that will be solution No. 1, teaching people to comprehend basic grammar.

  21. We’re at a loss here Jason because you seem to nullify relevant questions. It’s your right, but to help us understand the road you travel, some points need to be made.

    Scratch the whitening of the NFL. Lets give him that one people. Now can you answer my question Jason?

  22. I think Whitlock for the most part, is a lost cause…and not because I disagree with the majority of his pieces, but because, as evidenced by his posts yesterday, he just doesnt’ care.

    I have developed such a respect for Jemele Hill because she has shown she does care about what her words say…that doesnt mean she compromises her own views, it just means she has an open mind and is willing to discuss, debate and defend her opinions and as a result, grow. She has no problem recognizing that there are views and angles she may not have even considered. I don’t have to agree with her opinions, its not about pleasing me or black folks just because you’re black. However, I expect, I demand, more than a surface commentary that boils down to “well if y’all just act right.” I demand more than the same “black on black crime is outta control” with a bunch of justice department statistics. I deserve better than a completely unoriginal, easy target attack on hiphop. I expect a good journalist that offers commentary and editorials to go deeper than the obvious…I expect a good journalist to understand that a police record no more defines the totality of a person than a resume.

    I fear that the majority of African-american journalists that we criticize on these blogs are like Whitlock in that they just don’t care. How many would be willing to engage on sites such as this? To discuss, debate, defend their work? Would Wilbon’s ego allow him to engage in a spirited (lol) debate on his Sean Taylor commentary? I don’t mean that little chat he had with Redskins fans…naw…I mean a serious discussion that transcends the “oh you trashed a man who was dying” stuff. Would Adande actually be willing to sit and have his “Iverson vs Vick” piece analyzed and dissected??

    Have the egos gotten too big?? I think the solution lies in the journalists themselves. Do they want to hear US?

  23. The advent of TV fame for journalists is the cause and we the fans feel the effect in their writing.

    They are becoming the athlete with all the exposure.

    The case can be made Jason Whitlock is the most famous journalist alive. I can’t knock ya hustle Jason, but I would hope you would be true to the game.

  24. Nicole

    “Geez, forget the black KKK. Try the black gestapo. You brothers are awful quick to turn on another brother just because he disagrees with you. Think about it. Whitlock may have been reactionary, but at root level he is crying out against black-on-black violence. This is not a bad thing. There were legitimate reasons to think that Taylor may have been targeted specifically by somebody with a score to settle, given the previous break in. Whitlock at worst is guilty of kneejerk thinking. You guys are turning the poor brother into a white man tool house nigga. That’s crazy. You seem more pissed off by Whitlock than you are the actual murderers here. Has any one of you expressed any anger at all toward the heartless hellbound bastards who saw fit to murder a man for his possessions??? All this rage directed at Whitlock is so misguided. Look for some forgiveness in your hearts. Your obsession with Jason is starting to get embarrassing. Most of you people here moaning about him are playing more into the angry negro stereotype than Whitlock is playing into the house nigger stereotype. Give it a rest people. Don’t be so vicious, so full of misguided and unproductive anger.”

    Well, this is about as stupid, dishonest and just plain lazy as they come.

    Whitlock doesn’t draw our ire because he disagrees with us, and frankly that you started your tirade off with that ridiculous statement pretty much kills any reason I have to set you straight.

  25. To the real Nicole, I thought the fake Nicole’s post was odd coming from you, but I’m just off a night shift and not fully conversant. Please forgive me for thinking you could ever write such tripe.

    To Scrapplin’ lips. Don’t you have some white boys shoes to shine now boy? Make em extra spiffy and I’ll be sure to tell Mr. Charlie to drop you an extra nickle or two.

  26. I know Mizz, my bad and apology sincerely offered.

  27. Miranda I understand your point and you included “for the most part” so I’m sure you don’t think Jason is all the way gone.

    I would hope that Jason will use this forum to field some pertinent questions. Call me whatever, but I’m never lost on anyone.

  28. Kev to Nicole’s defense that’s our resident ever morphing troll.

  29. This place is filled with so much bad information. I turn down 19 out of every 20 TV appearances I’m asked to do. They do not pay and I simply do not have the time. I’m quite comfortable letting the imitators I’ve created to appear on those TV shows. Saves me the effort and the time. I quit a radio show that paid me quite well because it interfered with my column writing. I picked a fight with ESPN over Barry Bonds and Scoop’s bojanglery and sacrificed appearances on PTI, Rome is Burning and the Sports Reporters because I refuse to apologize. But I’m a publicity hound in love with seeing my face on TV. I write columns for the KC Star and Foxsports. That’s what I do. Don’t let these facts get in the way of whatever lies you want to tell.

    I have no interest in answering your questions because your questions are dishonest and uninformed.

  30. Scrapplin’ Lips

    “This place is filled with so much bad information. I turn down 19 out of every 20 TV appearances I’m asked to do. They do not pay and I simply do not have the time. I’m quite comfortable letting the imitators I’ve created to appear on those TV shows. Saves me the effort and the time. I quit a radio show that paid me quite well because it interfered with my column writing. I picked a fight with ESPN over Barry Bonds and Scoop’s bojanglery and sacrificed appearances on PTI, Rome is Burning and the Sports Reporters because I refuse to apologize. But I’m a publicity hound in love with seeing my face on TV. I write columns for the KC Star and Foxsports. That’s what I do. Don’t let these facts get in the way of whatever lies you want to tell.

    I have no interest in answering your questions because your questions are dishonest and uninformed.”

    Know what that is boys and girls? FEAR. Ole boy’s looked up long enough from his gig waxin’ Mr. Charlie’s pole to realize that the gig is up, the mustard is off the oxen. FEAR boys and girls, plain and simple.

  31. Mizzo,
    The only reason I have to believe that Jason isn’t all the way gone is that obviously tiny, atomically small, faint hint of discontent that compelled him to come here and post in the first place. I’m sure he initially confused that feeling with indigestion….but his right-off-the-bat defensiveness is a glimmer of hope that deep down…real deep……to the center of the earth deep….there is a concsious.

  32. Sorry I was adding the TNT notes post.

    Thanks Kev and Miranda.

    Jason the question is simple. Why all the references to Hip Hop and the Black KKK?

    I’m just asking brotha. No animosity here. This is a discussion. If you want to clear up info you call uninformed then please do.

    I wasn’t referring to you personally when I alluded to journalists TV time.

  33. I’ll be back in a half. Please continue the discussion. Jason I know you can handle real rap. No one is going to call you out. We are now more interested in a discussion. Let your guard down bruh and lets all have a talk.

    People please B EZ for me this one time and let the man speak.

    I appreciate it.

  34. Jemele Hill Says:

    I certainly don’t want to speak for all black columnists, and definitely not for Jason, who seems more than capable of defending himself.

    Here are a few things I wonder as a read this wonderful dialogue. I ask in earnest respect, at the hope of at least coming to some sort of common ground, as a way for us to be black people, and not MSM Negroes vs. Non-MSM Negroes. Please honestly answer the following:

    - If Jason didn’t write for Fox or the KC Star, but wrote for the Black Press, or Vibe, or another predominately Af-Am media forum, would you be as bothered by his opinions?

    - Do you consider “personal responsibility” themes in the black community the new racism?

    - Does hip hop bear any responsibility in the perception of African Americans? If so, to what degree?

    And in response to what someone wrote earlier, it is well past NABJ’s grasp/aim to sanction writers for their own opinion. By the way, several media studies have been done about the role race plays in crime reporting. NABJ members have been very vocal about issues like Natalee Holloway, Sean Taylor, Don Imus, etc. Our function is to provide checks and balances, but not to dictate opinions to people, even if we disagree.

  35. My issues nessecesarily don’t deal with just Whitlock, as I said he is just a part of the problem.

    It bothers me when a lot of what is produced today can be further used to instill hate in people rather than understanding. When some of those who comment on Whitlock’s stories call him a “credit to the race” I have to ask; is it because he is attacking problems within the community, or did he just give them a “reason” to justify their hatred?

    It really bothers me how a product of the African American culture; i.e. Hip Hop, can take the blame for ALL of America’s violence problems, but the same can not be done for products of other cultures. Why is it that something that is so prevasive, in MANY positive ways, such as Hip Hop is so often linked to being THE problem with America? If you took a list of all the movies that were made this year, I wonder how many we can find that glorify drugs and violence but have nothing to do with Hip Hop?

    If you want to pull back the curtain on problems within the Black Community then fine, do so. But if you look at what is created by the media today, if a person who had NEVER come in contact with someone of African American race followed some media outlets, they would be horrified of anyone who was of a darker complexion and that is a problem…

  36. Thanks for coming on Jemele. Would anyone like to answer her questions? I’ve overstated my opinion.

  37. Personally, I would not be bothered by Whitlock’s view if he wrote for non mainstream sites, because it would have less power over people. I think having Fox backing you, gives a lot of weight to your view, whatever it might be, to a certain audience. I think that is what is bothersome about whitlock’s articles to me. He starts off with a good idea, black kkk, I can dig that, then he throws it behind the most useless stories. His use of “black kkk” is thrown around without noticing the power behind it, he is wasting the power of that word in the same way Sharpton and Jackson waist their clout behind useless causes.

    Black KKK isn’t appropriate for the NBA All-Star break, the city wasn’t prepared for the influx because their police force is going through a overhaul, that is why things looked out of sorts in LV not because of the “Black KKK”. A responsible journalist would have said that, not just throw out something inflammatory, about fear on the streets because of the “Black KKK”, just to get some more hits on the site. I think for a statement as strong as that he needs to use it when it is appropriate, over using it makes it seem like he is just fear mongering and pandering to the LCD.

    As for personal responsibility I’m all for it, I got no problem with tha aspect at all.

    As for Hip-Hop blaming, how can you be for personal responsiblity and also blame hip-hop. Either a person is responsiblie for their own action or they aren’t. if you are going to say its hip-hops fault then you are taking the responsiblity away from the person who commits the crime, so with the evil hip-hop talk that is simply another reason I see Whitlock as being a panderer.

  38. Brotha Kevdog you got me rolling. Mizzo how in the world did you get whitlock to come on here.

    Whitlock I would just like to ask one question.

    When 2008 NBA Allstar game is held in still broken down N.O.

    (Also note that the allstar game will be held right after Mardi Gras which is the most violent and dangerouse time in N.O.)

    Will you blame the crime that happens during that week on black baby momma and black men? Or will you point out that the peak in crime is small when compared to the crime that happened all over N.O. during the weeks of mardi gras. He11 or compared to the crime that happens on Burban Street during Mardi Gras.

  39. Davidmac says:

    “As for Hip-Hop blaming, how can you be for personal responsiblity and also blame hip-hop. Either a person is responsiblie for their own action or they aren’t. if you are going to say its hip-hops fault then you are taking the responsiblity away from the person who commits the crime, so with the evil hip-hop talk that is simply another reason I see Whitlock as being a panderer.”

    Couldn’t agree more.

  40. There’s three questions Jemele raised that need responses. Kev if you are on, would you mind answering?

  41. Is it possible for us to actually come to an agreement on the definition of “hip hop”?? I have a problem with the way the word is generically thrown around and applied to any and all things urban. My guess is that the very ones that play the “blame hip hop” game, couldn’t articulate what hip hop is and what it encompasses if their life depended on it.

  42. Great point Miranda! Do you have a man? ;)

    Seriously though, this is something I’ve even spoken to you about in back and forth emails Jason.

    What is your definition of Hip Hop?

  43. I wil answer her questions Mizzo.

    Jemele I would still think whitlock was a c@@n even if he wrote for the Vibe or any other black press. I wouldn’t care if that fool wrote for King, Jet, Ebony, thestartingfive, cosellout or blackathlete. He still is a fool.

    As far as personal responsibility in the black community. This stuff has been talked about in the black community for years. At the same time white conservative and their black tools have used this to sell papers to to the white majority before you and I were ever born Ms. Hill.

    Even white liberals like Tim Wise have wrote papers how this tactic has been used for well over 60 years.

    If hip hop bears responsibily………..so does disney who pimps hip hop. So does hollywood………who pimps it also. So does fox who pimps it. So does Viacom who has made billions off of it.

    Funny how folks can down hip hop then tell me that the Sapranos is a great show, that Quentin Tarentino makes good movies and that the godfather is the greatest movie of all time.

    This crap is more gangsta then any rap CD 50 cent, Jay-z or Triple 6 mafia ever made.

  44. I personally don’t have an issue with the fourm that is used. The words are still the same no matter what page you read them on. The underlying message is what bothers me.

    To me, personal responsibility needs to be embraced and isn’t a new form of racisim. If I put myself in a position of trouble or danger, I can’t see how the blame can fall on anyone/anything else.

    And I do believe that Hip Hop does play a part in the perception of African Americans. The problem is that a lot of writiers only use the negative aspects of Hip Hop to build that perception. It’s like the massive entity that is hip hop has a segment cut from it, placed into a box and said here — this is what hip hop is and it’s the main representation of the African American race. And that is clearly wrong…

    On top of that. It’s often the status quo to use Hip Hop as the preception builder for African Americans, but the same can’t be done for other races. If Ludacris can be used as the model for the lack of respect for African American women, why can’t Brittany (sp?) Spears, Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan be used as examples for the wild behaviors of white women? (Just an example not saying it is true). If “gangsta rap” is used to represent the animosity between African Americans and the police, why isn’t the numerous mass murders committed by white men used as a perception builder for that segment of the population?

    I do believe that everything we produce, movies, literature, music is a representation of us, because art immitates life, but African Americans should not be the only race that is held to that standard. And sometimes I think that is the case….

  45. Cevidence and Origin thanks. Jemele were those responses sufficient?

  46. @Cevidence

    What mass murders were committed?

    I can’t get down with bringing up crap that happens before you are born as a reason for excusing poor behavior.

  47. DMac that’s not what he’s saying. Stop being defensive of practices that get no rap. Whites aren’t lumped together when members of their race commit crimes. That’s what he’s saying. Don’t twist his words. Move on.

  48. Jemele Hill Says:

    Cevidence:

    What you spoke of is an issue I was getting at in terms of my earnest questions. Honestly, no columnist, black or otherwise, can control how people react to them…to a degree, anyway.

    I know Bill Cosby has taken a lot of heat — personally, I’m cool with Cos because he’s given more money to uplift black folks than just about anyone — but I remember something he said that was especially true: White people are going to think what they think of us, regardless. We can’t control that anymore than we can control the weather.

    I just find that whenever there is a debate about a more conservative view by a black person, the issue tends to be how whites respond, what the white people think vs. the actual issue. Fact of the matter is that if a black person expresses any kind of general intelligence, we’re viewed as a “credit.” If that’s the case, shouldn’t the blame be more on the white person for being so narrowed minded than the black person? It’s certainly true that some whites put Jason on a pedestal because they’re happy see blacks criticizing blacks, but what’s the solution? Should Jason not write how he feels, point out obvious problems, because *some white people make it into a sideshow?

    Look, some whites are going to search dilligently for ways that exonerate them from their own racism, but that would be the case whether Jason Whitlock existed or not. I don’t always agree with Jason, but the truth is black people have allowed a culture of disrespect and violence to fester within our community. We really do have a serious problem with black-on-black crime, a by-product of the lack of respect we have for one another, and an even more dire problem with the continuing disenfranchisement of black males. I grew up on hip hop and love it immensely, but it has become littered with modern-day buffoons that reinforce materialistic, non-sensical b.s. There used to be balance in hip hop, but I just don’t see it as much anymore.

    All that being said, I also understand the need for balance and fairness in how we present these issues. You can’t blame the Ying Yang Twins without blaming the record company, distributors and executives who market them, many of which are white. You can’t point out the number of black prisoners, without also pointing out the disparity in drug sentencing that has disproportionately impacted the black community. You also can’t make the link between Sean Taylor’s past and his death without facts, if you also chastized the media for making the link between the Duke lacrosse players and rape after it was reported those lacrosse players had numerous disorderly complaints and one player was on probation for assault.

    But we should be careful about labeling people sellouts and the like. As Mizzo can attest, it’s not easy holding down any platform, mainstream or otherwise.

  49. Mizzo….LOL!!

    You’ve noticed the way “hip hop” is just sort of thrown out there and nobody even questions what it is? Is it all rap? West Coast, East Coast, Southern Crunk, Bass?? Is it any poetry by someone under 30? 35? 40? Is Mary J. Blige hip hop? Beyonce? Keisha Cole? Eve? Trina? Joss Stone?? Is it a style of clothing?? Baggy pants? Low rider jeans? skinny jeans?? jerseys?? baby tees?? sneakers? strappy sandals?? Is it particular fashion lines?? Sean John?? Baby Phat?? Rocawear?? Hilfiger?? Hugo Boss? When is a slang term hip hop as opposed to being…well…..slang?? Does hip hop promote a lifestyle?…is hip hop a lifestyle?? What are the facets of it??

    Anyone? Anyone?

  50. Thanks Jemele. Cevidence would you like to respond?

  51. @Miranda

    Why does it matter the sub-groups that you break it down into? I don’t understand why people always jump to take responsiblity away from the person. If you look at it that way, it doesn’t matter what hip-hop is, because in the end it comes down to the individual.

  52. David Mac –

    #1 How do you know how old I am to begin with…

    #2 Mass murders that happened during my lifetime…hmmmm…ever heard of Timothy McVeigh? Or didn’t 8 people just die in Omaha for no reason….

    and #3 as Mizzo said…don’t twist my words…please. Thanks.

    And I appreciate Jemele saying what she did. I for one know I wanted to call not only Jason but others some ridiculous names, so I’ll man up and apologize for that. But still I think he can be a critic of the African American race without going about it the way he does…

  53. DMac you say the same thing. She’s questioning the generalization just as you are.

    The individual is responsible. That is what this discussion is about right?

  54. Davidmac……really, that is impressive….you managed to get the point and miss it completely….all at the same time. Kudos.

  55. Be nice Miranda ;)

  56. (pout…fold arms) FINE!

  57. I’m not missing her point, I’m questioning why does it matter. Why does it matter if you don’t know west coast hip-hop from southern rap and etc.

  58. Nicole 10/20 Says:

    Hey, the first couple of times that I posted on this site I was not aware that it was not cool to have your name in caps , that is until someone “nicely” let me know. I am changing my name to Nicole 10/20 because Nicole is a very common name.

    P.S. Whitlock still rubs me the wrong way.

  59. The balance that you seek to find Jemele is still there. I felt the mainstream media didn’t have balance in sports so I found TSF and other websites. This balance in hip hop is there you have to do the research to find it.

    Viacom doesn’t want you to find it. Nor does Clear Channel.

    It always amazed me to hear people complain about the artform. Would ask what happened to the balance, but would never look to find the balance.

    People like MF doom, Aesop Rock, C-rayz walz. El-P, Murs, Immortal Technique, Dead Prez and countless other underground rappers. These rappers have tried for years to break through. But because they don’t talk about booties, rims, slanging dope and all the other stereotypical stuff that the white mass eat up. On top of that they challenge and question society and try to inform the listeners and fans.

    They are unable to get their deserved respect and following. A person like you could give them just a mention and could help the whole music industry change.

    I have found out over my years that corporations and greed destroy most things or alter it from its puriest form.

    Whether it is artform, health care or news. The less influence corporations have on things the better it is IMO.

    This is just some of the messages that these artist have. Yet the folks on radio and TV don’t want you to hear it.

  60. Miranda can you school DMac please? :)

  61. Great comments sista Miranda. Hip hop consists of 4 elements. Breaking, Djing, rapping and grafiti.

    So the media basically has used rap as hip hop. When actually it is just one element of the whole.

    Even many of these rappers who claim hip hop are no more hip hop then the kid in the suburbs.

  62. Folks – Mizzo asked me to chime in, and it is an honor to be asked so here we go.
    Jemele Hill is one of the best there is banging out columns right now and I would like to try to give my two cents to answer her questions:

    Q – If Jason didn’t write for Fox or the KC Star, but wrote for the Black Press, or Vibe, or another predominately Af-Am media forum, would you be as bothered by his opinions?

    A – Absolutely. I wouldn’t care if he wrote his columns on cocktail napkins in the champagne room. When you are willing to compare young black teenagers to an organization (the KKK) that bombed churches, were intimately connected with police terror, and violently terrorized people from exercising their citizenship, you are doing little more than making the debate more corrosive.

    When you call Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton “domestic terrorists” and blame them for death threats received by the Rutgers team, you are fanning the flames of racism.

    When you write, “[NBA] All-Star Weekend can no longer remain the Woodstock for parolees, wannabe rap artists and babies’ mamas on tax-refund vacations,” you are profiting on the worst stereotypes.

    When you call Vivian Stringer a “shameless” publicity hound, you embarrass yourself.

    When you mock Mychal Bell’s father and the families of the Jena 6…. And when you get a pass for it because you happen to be black, then people have every right to call you to account.

    When you can’t even wait for Sean Taylor to be buried before spouting insane theories about “the Black KKK” then you actually owe his family and all of us who mourn an apology. As Marcellus Wiley wrote, “I guess Whitlock is right. Taylor’s death, like his news headline stated, is ‘a grim reminder for us all.’ Yeah, it’s a reminder all right. It reminds me that not only are there villains in this world who unfortunately put their energy into destruction, but there are also still people who are thoughtless enough to destroy the lives of the living and memory of the deceased with an inept justification such as a checkered past, a zip code of residency, or a skin color.”

    Q – Do you consider “personal responsibility” themes in the black community the new racism?

    A – Absolutely not. Malcolm X preached personal responsibility as did Dr. King. The 15,000 people who marched on the Justice Department last month for the Jena 6 talked about it as well. But their speeches are perfectly clear on a point that Whitlock rejects with relish: preaching personal responsibility doesn’t mean giving a pass to institutional or structural racism. Blaming hip hop for the insane prison rates in the black community, or hoisting scorn on “baby’s mamas” as a way to understand why inner city schools are in a state of decay, would have made Malcolm, Martin, and everyone who marched with them physically ill. As King said, “I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without first having spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today: my own government. “

    Q – Does hip hop bear any responsibility in the perception of African Americans? If so, to what degree?

    A – Absolutely hip hop – as do all artists, writers, film makers – bears responsibility for their message. But what one would never know when reading Whitlock is that there is all kinds of hip hop out there. There is Immortal Technique, Mos Def, Son of NUN, Head-Roc, Dead Prez, The Coup…. There are hip hop arts programs working in the city. There is a battle right now for hip hop’s soul and Whitlock’s approach of sliming it all as the soundtrack for the Black KKK is more than counterproductive: it lets all the industry bigwigs (black and white) that make money off of misogynistic, homophobic, violent hip hop off the hook.

    Last point. This is a discussion that intimately involves all of us: black, white and brown. Racism is used to divide and destroy. It’s been used to prosecute this war, ,militarize the border, and make us believe that millions of our brothers and sisters (of all colors) deserve to live their lives behind bars. Everyone of good conscience has a responsibility to stand up to it, no matter their shade.

    Thanks for reading.
    Dave Zirin

  63. Nope Mizzo…..I can see that swirling vortex, I am not getting sucked into it. Like I said, he got my point and then missed it. That’s confusing enough for me.

  64. A virtual standing ovation to Dave Zirin.

  65. Ms. Hill, In response to your questions, Yes Jason’s words would still be inflamatory if he wrote for a historically Black publication. Mainly his words serve to add fuel to white hated, white fear and white indifference. The brother may believe himself to be well meaning, but at present he is helping the massa. The massa embrace his words, and use them to say see, I told you so.. Lets build more jails.

    Yes, “personal responsibility” is absolutly a new form of racism. Why is the phrase only use with us?. To fight through 400 years of dehumanizing shit, one must have personal and group responsibility. Personally, I find it offensive, and revolting for anyone to question the personal responsibility of my people.

  66. Thank you so much dave. I just didn’t have the time to research that fools articles and get the exact quotas.

    Dave I got to give you a standing ovation for that post man. Real talk.

    Also guys read up on the temple of hip hop which KRS-one has started. Last please folks most of that crap you hear on TV and radio ain’t hip hop.

    http://www.templeofhiphop.org/

  67. I hear you Miranda :)

    Thanks DZ.

    I’m in total agreement. One thing I will add people. If you haven’t heard Son of NUN, you better get on it. The brotha will affect your soul.

  68. My thing is that there seems to be a disproportionate amount of attention towards us whenever something happens. Because the kids who went in Sean Taylor’s house had pics of themselves surrounded by money doesn’t implicate hip-hop. You can find pics of Marilyn Monroe doing the same thing back damn near 50 years ago…

    Hip-hop, when its defined by people with no knowledge of what the culture really is, can misconstrue it and make it seem that all things “Black” not only fall into hip-hop, but use it as a weapon against us when things like this happen, tragedies that are unexplainable in any circumstance…

    People like Whitlock, who, despite his criticism for hip-hop, is a producer for local acts in KC and promotes hip-hop in his own way, but at the same time, uses it as a weapon to appeal to the white masses

    Black folks have been used and abused long before Jason came along, but the ethics it seems he doesn’t demonstrate, as well as the lack of validity and obvious generalizing of an entire culture for public consumption is sickening…there are indeed problems in the black community, as there are problems within any violent environment, but placing wholesale blame on the stupidity of isolated individuals who don’t need videos or songs to have capitalistic values or lack of morals is unfair…

    People want to start a true dialog with Whitlock, Wilbon and others, not taking the easy way out and blaming the first thing that comes to mind when you turn on TV or your radio. Because by blaming hip-hop, you are falling victim to the same thing you’re accusing the culture of doing, imitating, or blaming the first thing you can think of instead of having an intelligent thought with the purpose of making things better….btw what would Ralph Wiley think?

  69. Couldn’t agree more Imhotep.

  70. @Zirin

    How is saying that Jackson and Sharpton are domestic terrorist racist? Really. You have to explain that to me, because I don’t see race playing a picture at all and I just happen to be black, show me the connection please.

    As for the Black KKK, if you get what he is talking about, the negative elements of the black community, they have done the same thing that the KKK used to do. They kill blacks, intimidate blacks from going to the cops, and a host of other terrible things. I fail to see why comparing that element to the KKK is a bad thing, can you enlighten me?

    As for you last paragraph that just goes into basic liberal ramblings and I see no need to respect the crap in that one.

  71. Right young I heard that about Whitlock. Didn’t he do a song with KC local rapper TechN9?

  72. That’s my brotha right there. Thanks youngvito voice of the young people. I gotta say that every time you come on. The beat and lyrics in Once Again It’s On by Hov and Beans on State Property are straight fire.

  73. I need to cut and paste my ‘music isn’t to blame’ argument.

    Blame hip-hop, blame goth, blame 50, blame marilyn manson, blame GTA video games, but for god’s sake don’t blame the perpetrator or the family that allowed the child to do the shit.

    As has been pointed out before, mainstream Hip-hop isn’t even ‘black’ anymore. Black faces, white audience, white corporate owner. The underground stuff is much more diverse racially, artist wise, and you don’t get all the crap the mainstream has become, we all know this (I think).

    And labelling what is hip-hop is going to be difficult. Labels like that are necessarily vague. What is rock at this point? Do you include all the subsets of rock as ‘rock n’ roll’? I see why you’re asking for a definition, but it is pretty much impossible to define at this point. 30 yrs of musical growth in a genre and stuff happens.

  74. Well said youngvito.

    Ms. Hill,
    It bothered me and I didn’t comment, but the more I think about it, its pretty offensive to imply that there would be a difference in reaction to Whitlock’s columns if he wrote for an African-american forum. I know you weren’t deliberately attempting to offend and perhaps there is some legitimacy to why you asked that question, but think about it…isn’t it sorta insulting? For goodness sakes, we’re more intelligent than that.

  75. Nicole 10/20 Says:

    Jemele,

    If Whitlock wrote for a predominately black magazine my opinions probably would not be as harsh. Who is his audience??? Does he really want change???? Maybe he should write for Vibe magazine. Maybe he should talk directly to the people, open a dialogue. How about going on black radio to discuss these things. Bill Cosby was on Meet The Press for an entire hour. He was preaching to the choir. The black folks that watch that show are for the most part taking care of their business. So who was he really talking to??

    What is the response to Whitlock from young black athletes??

    I do not know how “taking responsiblity” is the new racism. I want everyone to take responsiblity for their actions, but do you realize that you guys do not have credibility with the people you are criticizing?? I don’t believe that the headlines will crack their armor. It will have to be a grass roots effort.

    Let us not forget that black people are some of the most conservative people on the planet.

    Hip-hop does bear a certain amount of responsiblity. Simply because when you are a minority, everything that you do is analyzed by the majority race. I for one should have said something when Ludacris was talking about “ho’s in different area codes” or “move bitch get out the way”. I ask my husband all the time why they seem to hate women or at least the women who are around them. He doesn’t know.

    I grew up on the west-side of Chicago and the boys were rough on the girls. Sometimes they were downright mean. I digress. Who is your audience??? that’s what I want to know.

    Also, maybe black people are sooo sensitive to the criticism because we are the ones who are usually extremely hard on ourselves that when we hear outside criticism it sends some of us over the edge.

  76. Without name calling, what is it going to take for Jason Whitlock to understand progressive folk’s concerns?

  77. GrandNubian Says:

    To Cevidence:

    Great posts…..I couldn’t agree with you more.

    To origin:

    As always, you bring light (knowledge) into the darkness (ignorance).

    (NOTE: The analogy above is used only to get my point across. Please do not take it as fact.)

    To Dave Zirin:

    Excellent post. I always enjoy reading your columns. You are one of the few who bring balance in your writing.

    Asante (thanks) for your words.

  78. The thing is Mizzo he doesn’t care. He is the epitome of American capitialistic society. He is basically getting rich or dying trying.

    The motto of screw everybody else I’m gonna get mine. Rings very loud in Whitlocks mind. Sadly maybe even in his heart.

  79. Jemele Hill Says:

    Dave, very thoughtful response. Jason knows I didn’t agree with his characterization of Vivian Stringer. I’ve been covering women’s basketball in some capacity since I became a professional 10 years ago. C. Vivian is one of the most respected, earnest people I know and one of four five sports personalities I consider worthy of looking up to. But the black KKK resonates with me differently since I grew up in neighborhoods terrorized by the people Jason often describes. It saddens me deeply to see black people robbing and terrorizing people in their own neighborhoods, knowing innately the struggle and difficulty we all have to go through on a daily basis. It hurts knowing that even though Jeremy Shockey probably parties four times as much as most normal human beings, black athletes are more apt to be killed for doing the same thing. And it’s not because Shockey is some kind of infinite decision maker.

    I guess the main question becomes which was first: the chicken or the egg? And that’s where we all tend to have our varying points of disagreement. The institutional racism came first and now we are living in the after-effects, which a dear friend termed our post-traumatic slave disorder. Maybe I’m being naive, but I’d like to think there was room to confront both the chicken and the egg. I’m not willing to exonerate institutional racism OR personal responsibility.

    As for hip hop, ever since certain kinds of hip hop started connecting fiercely with the mainstream, it has led to damaging /destructive portrayals of African Americans. I know where to find the good, meaningful, fun hip hop. It’s in my iPod. But remember, it’s Soulja Boy that keeps selling!

    I, for one, don’t blame hip hop for anything or than giving us an onslaught of disappointing music and images. Fact is, black-on-black crime has been an issue for three decades. I was just thinking to myself the other day…dang, I thought things were bad when KRS-ONE penned “Self Destruction.”

    But I can’t blatantly ignore how some artists, some record companies, and some networks pander and promote the most ignorant, buffoonish characters and *some whites absorb it like a sponge. Some of you are bothered by the commentators and the crowd Jason’s columns sometimes attract, but I am at least equally disturbed by those that define black culture by stupid-a** dances and gold teeth.

    And Dave, when I grow up, I wanna write like you :)

  80. Jemele Hill Says:

    @ Nicole:

    Jason works for who he works for. That’s not going to change. I work for who I work for, and that’s not apt to change, either. Certainly you realize it is a different level of responsibility because the platform is bigger, but you can’t be true to yourself by putting yourself in a box. Is it fair to ask him to change his message because some of us might be too sensitive to hear it? I’m not exactly sure the whole in-house mentality has helped black people. You could argue, pretty strongly, that it only has caused us to be bigger enablers.

  81. ‘But I can’t blatantly ignore how some artists, some record companies, and some networks pander and promote the most ignorant, buffoonish characters and *some whites absorb it like a sponge.’

    *some? Probably more than some, and a lot of it is used as justification for their racist viewpoints.
    I used to be more naive but there’s a lot of racist mf’ers out there. I have to fight this kind of thinking in my little brother all the time, and he even knows better. But he’s ten years younger and got raised on the Oregon coast, where you’ll see plenty of people with confederate flags on their cars even though they’re 4th generation Oregonians.

  82. All this crap about personal responsibility is either a smoke screen to justify the niggerization of Africans in this caste system. Or thrown out there by people so full of themselves and ignorant to nth degree.

    As David Zirin said previously many of called for personal responsibility and have been calling for it. But like any thing African that is positive, if it doesn’t include running and jumping, singing and dancing then it is not highlighted by the media.

    They would rather perpetuate negative images than work to find a uplifting solution.

    It is also wrong headed to ask if Whitlock writes for a African publication if we would respond so outrageously….well…

    The higher the monkey climbs the more his ass is exposed!

    The fight for the soul of Hip Hop is the same fight that was waged for the saoul of Reggae music. It’s a hard road back to respectability as long as we don’t define our culture and legacy and allow the money interest and power brokers to do it

    DavidMac…no! You will not be further enlightened, you will die in your ignorance and I personally will step over you and find some one else to enlighten.

    Just when I thought you might be dragged kicking and screaming into the 18th centuary, you revert back to the 14th.

    I guess peoples basic persoanlity never changes.

  83. Nicole 10/20 Says:

    Jemele,

    I understand what you are saying, but how is the situation going to change??? The columns and headlines are not doing the job. There has got to be a space between enablers and exploiters. Maybe the whole in-house mentality was handled wrongly. Instead of saying don’t talk about it maybe we should have been saying don’t do it. I still believe that you guys are not reaching the very people you are criticizing. Just as an aside, people tend to commit crimes against the people who are in their environment. In most cases whites kill whites, blacks kill blacks, asians kill asians and mexicans kill mexicans.

  84. Sankofa,

    “But like any thing African that is positive, if it doesn’t include running and jumping, singing and dancing then it is not highlighted by the media.”

    Well Said brotha and so true. You can also add smiling and laughing.

  85. So true Nicole. And it won’t change I would argue that if will get worse.

    Black Pathology is big business.

  86. ‘sy would I believe anything that Whitlock says or does. His “Drive- By- Journalism” is part and parcel of what’s wrong in the public discourse. Ever since the birth of the “Shock Jocks” in the 1970′s, Americans cannot discuss issues in an intelligent civilized manner anymore. Now on the TSF we have trolls(usually white males) who can’t take black folks challenging the media and various sportwriters for their racial, social and political bias when it comes to black althletes. Whitlock is no social commentator of any great merit because he does not what I.F. Stone, Ralph Wiley, Bill Rhoden, Arthur Ashe, and Dave Zirin have an empathy for the people they are talking about.

    Whitlock is a st8 up liar and like many modern so- called journalists, they play hard and fast with the truth with no sense of logic or fairness or something so basic to activist journalism that he land others don’t indulge in SOMETHING CALLED THE TRUTH!!! because anyone can check your stats by going online and challenging the very nature of the lies Whitlock tells. I remember Roland Martin on CNN in a debate accused Whitlock of playing “fast and loose” with facts. Remember the All- Star game when Whitlock was getting lap dances and drinking grey goose with his boys he wrote a story on him and his boys enjoying the Vegas Nite Life and then two days later he writes of the so- called mayhem of the ‘Black KKK’ terrorizing Vegas and advocated not sending the game to New Orleans because they would just spread their bad behavior. Now after all the lies by some of these white journalists and Whitlock you would have thought it like D.W. Griffith’s “Birth Of A Nation” part two and the Klan needs to ride in their Ford Trucks and NRA – approved weapons.

    Whitlock is a parasite on the media and a LIAR !!!!! in many ways he is no more a journalist or commentator then Ann Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannitty and Bill O’Reilly. Like Tiffany Pollard, Tila Tegulia, Karrine Steffans and Flavor Flav they are WHORES in the worst way.

  87. TSF is blocked in Temple 3′s place of employment. You all know he wants to chime in, so here are some words he sent via email:

    There is a reason why I love me some Miranda. What is JW talking about when he says “hip hop”? It doesn’t matter because he doesn’t know or care to be honest. Even a deaf dumb and blind child knows that white folks control the content of hip hop – the messages of hip hop because they control the distribution. It has been nearly impossible to get broad distribution of an authentic pro-Black message for almost 7 decades…there have been exceptions, but entire genres have been subsumed under the weight of poor distribution. More to the point – are we our own worst enemy?

    If the criticism is why do certain folks persist in trafficking in “coon” images to make a buck, that’s fair. If the question is why do people persist in buying “coon” images to soothe themselves – that’s a fair question – but in ANY event, the source of ALL three problems is exactly the same. And we are not the source – even though we shoulder 100% of the responsibility. I am crystal clear about that. While we have never fought alone against injustice, our most effective approaches have been our own.

    In every single instance, whether we’re talking about the distribution of music, the elevation of ignant or greedy, unscrupulous folks or the sickness that allows Black folks to buy anti-black imagery – there is greater active institutional power in service to white supremacy than there is in service to black freedom of mind. JW works for one of the greatest purveyors of anti-Black imagery anywhere on the planet. JH’s parent company has one of the greatest historical archives of anti-black imagery and media anywhere on the planet (Disney). Sure folks have the right to choose – but…it is more than a bit fraudulent to accept cash from the same institutions that traffic in our demise while asking your own people to cease their participation in those same entities. It is a classic “Do as I say, not as I do” moment. Being a “coon” is the PRICE OF THE TICKET. You can’t get great distribution without being anti-black on some significant level. You can’t put forth a paradigm for cultural ownership of black cultural production by black owners using white media tools without getting severely censured. Err, fired. If Whitlock or Hill shifted their paradigms from behavior to POWER and economics, they’d be f-i-r-e-d. sckrate-up.

    Now, if folks want to talk about behavior and money – the lynch pin of the demise of the modern negro (or something like that) – they should consider why Hugh Hefner and Bob Guccione haven’t wrought the demise of America. Wall Street is pleased as punch. Washington is plotting its next Invasion Du Jour and Hollywood is seeking synergies with gamers and bloggers. If its the best of times and the worst of times – and 80 year-old men are selling ass young enough to be a third generation descendant, something cannot be right. Black folk can continue to focus on ethics until the cows come home – but that’s not the root cause of our trouble…It never has been and never will be.

    The root cause of our trouble is a persistent inability to recognize our true enemies and WORK toward solutions around security, wealth and distribution of that wealth. This problem, contrary to popular opinion is not a 500 year old problem. It hasn’t been that long. It is certain that many people need to be corrected with respect to their behavior, but those people have the sanctions of those who control life and death in your communities…and that doesn’t mean they can’t be stopped – but you have to get the black face down the street at the same time you go after the non-black face pulling the strings.

    When folks tried to strong arm Stax and “finesse” Al Bell and Isaac Hayes out of their hard-earned dollars, hip-hop was but a dream along the seminal tract of Kool Herc’s father. The cultural viability of our youth is not the source of our problem – and it was not willingly relinquished by people any less ethical than our esteemed writers in the belly of the beast. No one can make you perform or write in the service of your enemies unless you choose to do so. In the same way that these “entertainers” choose a Coon’s Gold over authoring definitive pro-Black images, so too do our writers cast their pearls before the swine of their anti-Black readership.

    If the pot ever rose up to call the kettle black, there would uproarious laughter so hearty from coast to coast that the tumbling of the Walls of Jericho would seem as a faint echo. Finally, Jemele and Cos are correct about the perceptions of white folks – it will be what it is…however, there is one caveat to that. While our mental health demands that our peace of mind not be contingent on how we are perceived by “whites,” our physical well-being is subject to how many “whites” perceive us – whether in the realm of education, public policy, health care, etc. The data can be be overwhelming – and that is why the perception matters – not for our internal sustenance – but for our external capacity to live, be, love and die black on our own terms.

  88. @ origin
    I disagree with you and sankofa. What people of any race are on the news if they aren’t entertainers or athletes. This isn’t a evil plot to disgrace black people, its about business.

    The news organizations are going to put out what their audience wants to hear and the only positive things people like, for the most part, are sport reporting and entertainment, but bad news is what sales.

    @eric
    I find it funny you end your article with conservative bashing. Why is it you react so negatively to people who simply disagree with you. I think the people on this board need to recognize that people are going to disagree, but the root of that is not always because they hate blacks or browns. Stop always trying to demonize or put down everyone who doesn’t agree with you.

  89. Another T3 response:

    Imagine this Jason Whitlock

    This Jason Whitlock doesn’t sit behind a desk collecting fat checks from Fox for taking contrarian positions on ethics…No, that’s too easy. Instead, he begins the process of reaching out to all those folks with the capital and capacity to create a NEW distribution vehicle for his work – and the work of others. For a few years, he is compelled to forego some of those fat checks, but with some guidance and persistence – he miraculously discovers a new way to cement his hustle in service to his people. Municipalities will pay for that kind of leadership.

    He collaborates with leading educators in Kansas City to open a charter school for sports journalism. The school is a welcome addition to the bleak educational landscape in the city. Whitlock reaches out to the legion of Bloods and Crips who dominate KC to enlist their aid in sustaining a viable, safe educational environment. He is able to get Herman Edwards and many KC Chiefs to show up. His old nemesis Carl Peterson even contributes $500l to the operation. The Hunt Family ponies up some loot and JW begins to frame his new legacy. At the end of five years, his school serves over 500 students and provides a solid infrastructure for the remodeling of journalism across the nation.

    After his success with the charter school, JW decides it’s high time that his connections with players and coaches were leveraged into more and more things. JW travels off to the Far East, along the Frank Lucas Trail – and returns not with heroin, but with a reverse engineered platform for media distribution: think iTunes meets Google – and he gets to work rewriting distribution contracts for Black artists with serious political content. He heads off to Scandinavia or Ghana and ensures that cutting edge hardware supports his new initiative and he’s off and running again.

    Where will he go? Who knows but anything is possible.

  90. D@MN brotha Temple laid it down like pavement!!!!

  91. Ms. Hill, though I am reading your post about Hip- Hop and the damage it’s doing to young black people and reinforcing sterotypes, There are black musicians who have played other styles of music and have been ever since the 70′s post – Beatles Rock. I am getting tired of black folks acting like there are no other musics that black people play other than commerical rap or vapid R&B. Maybe it’s time that black people and their parents open them up to a world of black music that is vast as it is diverse.

    There are progressive Black Music sites like Afro- Punk, The Black Rock Coalition with bands and acts and diverse sounds like…

    Stone Vengance – Heavy Metal (nearly 30 years)
    Fishbone – Alternative
    Bad Brains – Hardcore
    Living Colour Heavy Rock
    Apollo Heights Alternative
    24-7 Spyz Punk – Alternative
    Chocolate Genius Singer Songwiter
    D-Xterme Metal/trash/Funk
    Tamar Kali Punk
    Chocalate Gum Drops – Bluegrass
    Brunt Sugar Fusion
    Duke Electro -Punk – Glam
    Mother’s Finest – Hard Rock (nearly 40 years)
    Year of the Dragon Thrash
    Whole Wheat Emo
    Robert Randolph’s Family Band – Jam Band

    and many other black acts in various music, retro, and other styles of music. Too many Brothas and Sistas young and Old are being apatheic when it comes to music and have been led to think that Soulja Boy or sexist mainstream rap and coon and blues is the only option for African- Americans. Ms. Hill it’s time to stylistic diversity in black music instead of the “big six” (who are following what whites like) labels telling black folks what to listen to. Maybe that will do more to help the music than lengthy debates of commerical rap (which really is not Hip- Hop in any reasonable way)

    Modern Commerical rap music since 1993 – present is not HIP-HOP, It is pop music for stupid people.

  92. D@MN D@MN D@MN……………..Temple is laying some real stuff down. Man that stuff is like poetry.

  93. Nice to see this site is continuing it’s “racism” theme. Miranda, as always, you act the biggest fool of all.

  94. Yeap friedman TSF still standing strong and getting bigger.

    Don’t be mad GOB………..they got millions of websites just for folks like you.

  95. @eric

    Who are you to say what current hip-hop is eric. What gives you the right to put someone elses music down, so that you can feel all high and mighty. I knew it would get to this, every time people talk about hip-hop, some lame ass conscioius rap fan or a fan of a rapper people don’t want to hear, gets up and start downing all the music thats popular to build himself up.

    the music industry is just that, an industry. It isn’t hear for the stupid people who think music should reflect how they fell, it is hear to move units. If you don’t like it don’t support it, fine, but don’t knock it just because you are mad that your group never had what it took to make it.

  96. So David Mac, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannitty, Jason Whitlock are journalistic giants and social commentators like Edward R. Murrow, Ed Bradley, Ed Lacey, Walter Cronkite, Ralph Wiley or in the modern era Amy Goodman, Ishmael Reed, Gwen Ifill and Bill Moyers? I hate those conservatives because they can’t carry those men and lady’s smelly- assed drawers David Mac because those four idiots along with O’Reilly faux intellectuals to say in the Imortal words of the Godfather of Soul James Brown….

    TALKING LOUD AND SAYING NOTHIN!!!!!!

  97. Damn, Miranda does something to piss people off. Doesn’t have a comment in 30 posts, and still getting dogged.

    Nice list Eric, not to mention there are plenty other bands with black band members, as well as Mexicans and other races (Suicidal Tendencies, Rage Against the Machine, etc). Bad Brains was a pioneer in hardcore, and before they went metal/reggae were the probably the best musicians in hardcore. Fishbone is probably to blame for all the ska bands that came out, but I enjoyed Fishbone, their imitators not so much.

    You even forgot Jimi, unless you figured that one was too obvious.

  98. Murrow, Bradley, Cronkite, Wiley, Goodman, Reed , Ifill, and Moyers are only giants if you are a liberal, they were just as one-sided in their reporting and editorializing as Coulter , Limbaugh, and Hannity, I don’t include Whitlock in this group, the only difference is the liberal side like to act like they were unbiased and just sticking to the facts.

    I understand you love your liberal news media, more power to you, the difference between you and me is that I’m not going to demonize any of those liberal people you named. I disagree with their view points and some of their actions but I’m not going to call them every name under the sun, and thats because I have class and tact.

  99. Where’s your music Asshole ? I said that commerical rap music since 1993 is pop pablum for the masses it is not Hip- Hop. David Mac, Hip- Hop is four elements tied together by a culture but since you are too white and stupid to know that let me educate you again!!!!

    Hip- Hop is….

    Graffti
    DJ’ING
    MC’ING
    Breakdancing

    Hip- Hop culture is healthy around the world with great artists, music and graftti and DJ’S but the big six through their rancid need to make money put the MC front and center when it used to be the MC AND DJ along with the other elements. Many of the acts prior to 1993 adhered in many ways to the four elements and gave Hip- Hop it’s Golden Age through 1983 -1992. People like Jimmy Iovone, Lyor Cohen, L.A. Reid, Suge Knight and Jerry Heller along with Easy – E spotlighted the MC only and the worst racial and sexual sterotypes to appeal to white people like you who would buy anything that speaks of black pathology. That is not the Hip- Hop that Afrika Bamabatta created along with those young black and puerto rican kids in the 70′s

  100. Mizzo,
    I get the feeling the conversation is veering to the left. Not that I mind what I’m reading and its all good convo…but it just seems like while we’re getting into everything from Jason’s motives to the lack of balance in hiphop, wasn’t the starting point the lack of balance in sports media coverage?

    I’m all for discussing the issues of black-on-black crime and how that may affect young black men in the NFL or NBA…but that’s not what Jim Rome is doing with Terrence Moore grinning by his side…he’s just yelling Pacman is a thug for 30 minutes. I don’t think Peter King or Don Banks mentions hip hop when they blame Chad Johnson, of all people, for the Bengal’s woes. Brett Farve, who had a straight up hissy fit this summer is SI’s Sportsman of the Year. How is it that half of America knows who Chris Henry is? He’s a freaking 3rd receiver for the Bengals…but now he’s a household name….I wonder how many of those households know who Jared Allen is?? For every traffic ticket that gets highlighted on Sportscenter, where is the segment on Artest’s work in Africa, where is a sentence on Marbury’s donation to the police and fire departments? The AJC wrote at least three articles on Mike Vick missing a flight to DC, even provided a timeline and possible flights he could have taken (I kid you not)….the man missed a flight to get an award for his work with after-school programs….I had read the paper everyday for 5 years and never once did I see a syllable about Mike Vick and his work with after-school programs….and can somebody please tell me…what happened in Pat Kerney’s house?

    Maybe the ire that so many feel towards Whitlock and other blacks in sports media is that we have come to grips with the fact that we know the King’s, Cowherd’s, etc are going to play the “Pacman as Blackman” card……why we gotta get that from our own too?? Why?? Are these sportswriter held to a different standard…hell yes.

    Here’s a tip Jason, the next time it crosses your mind to write something along the lines of why the NFL needs to distance itself from hiphop, instead do an expose on the violence and senseless brutality promoted in the National HOCKEY League.

  101. DavidMac, let us not forget the worst of them all: Dan “fake but accurate” Rather.

  102. GMP- Jimi is quite obvious along with P- FUNK, Sly and Mandrill. I have a huge jones for the Psychedelic Funk of the early 70′s along with another black power trio in the late 60′s early 70′s called Black Merda. And don’t forget Betty Davis, I love her more than I ever did Tina Turner and Skunk Anasie.

  103. WOW,

    An all star cast today. Well, you guys have said it all. I applaud the conversation. Talk a bow folks. The dialogue is simply beautiful.

  104. I didn’t mean to throw an ‘even’ in front of Jimi. Sort of changes what I meant.

    I have a big hole in my music from the 60′s and 70′s, my dad wasn’t listening to a lot of P-funk, and I didn’t come into my own musical tastes til the late 80′s.

    I forgot what the point to this all is. Mention music, beer and sports and I’ll go off topic any time, sorry.

  105. @eric

    thats what it is to you. to me its music and clothes. You can say what you want about how it started, that what is is today.

    As I said before I’m black and I take offense to you trying to portray me as otherwise.

    @Friedman

    Yeah I forgot him, nice catch. These are the people that the liberal media praise. Its pathetic and then they have the nerve to try to attack a Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, or Coulter who are open about their leanings and don’t hide them.

  106. You listen to Limbaugh?
    So does my Grandmother, she’s 85 and white. I’ve heard it when I’ve visited her house, can’t say I’d be too wild about him were I black. Can’t say I’m too crazy about my grandmother listening to it, but you know, she’s old and thinks she’s being politically correct when she says ‘those black people have such rhythm’.

    But that’s his target audience.

  107. GMP I didn’t either it was about 1987 when I got into musical diversity and have been collecting albums (vinyl, cd, tape) ever since. But love P-Funk but prefer Funkadelic because of the insanity of Pedro Bell’s album covers and their music gets my rock- n-roll jones up everytime.

  108. @GMP

    Yes I listen to Rush and enjoy his program. He is very insightful and a straight-shooter. I fell away from him a little while, because he started to cover for Bush’s spending and devotion to Israel a little too much, but he is coming back around. Pat Robertson is another fine journalist.

  109. I met Pat Buchanon not Robertson.

  110. Yo Davidmac how do you feel when that bigot Rush called Mayor Nagin……….major nigg@#. Or how do you feel when Rush plays the magical negro skit when he mentions Obama.

    Do you like when he was calling Obama and Halle Berry Half-fricans???

  111. most sportswriters and sports radio hosts are not sufficiently educated or well read enough to intelligently write about or discuss such complex sudjects as crime, poverty and race in america.

  112. Rush gets the liberals all bent out of shape; they’re terrified of him. I love it.

  113. Please Friedman ain’t nobody scared of some fat old bigot. I’m more affraid of archie bunker then that fool.

    Rush would get his @ss whooped. All day everyday.

  114. Liberal? conservative? Pick side and blindly follow. Enjoy.
    I’ll listen to the viewpoints of many, I’ll not blindly follow the ideologies of old white men, young black ladies, or anyone in between. But you enjoy yourself on your blindly loyal to the republican cause.

    I can’t believe anyone with any knowledge would blindly follow any of these people. So call people liberals if it makes you feel better. I love how my conservative Bob Joneser neighbor (literally, I live in Bob Jones land, you’d love my neighborhood, they’re all faculty) wax poetic about what a great job our president is doing for our soldiers. I was a soldier, fuck him.

  115. Who said anything about blindly following? Perhaps you are projecting.

    And GWB may be many things, but a Conservative he most certainly is not.

  116. Rush didn’t call Mayor Najin mayor “N-word’, that is a lie and you know it. As for “Barrack the magical negro” that song is based of the LA Times article of the entitle Obama, The Magical Negro. He was making fun of them. I guess you don’t have a problem with the LA Times article title though, your hate only goes out to a conservative who says it.

    As for Halfrican, what are they, they both are mixed. :) But again I forgot you can’t point at the obvious if you are a conservative.

  117. This ain’t about a republiklan or conservative or demorcrate or Liberal.

    Its about Rush being a punk, sexed up, pill popping bigot.

    PS f%$K the LA times and F%$K that bigot Rush.

    Punk is lucky his hearing came back. Probably went away after his @ss was popping all those sex pills.

  118. Wow you need to calm down, Rush never did anything to you. You have an irrational anger directed towards Rush, might be some anger issues you have within yourself, but your outburst is saddening.

  119. DaveMac,

    Just when I thought there was hope for you, you defend Rush Limbaugh? Come on man. You’ve got to be kidding me.

  120. @Michelle
    You need to stop going by what you “think Rush says” and go by what he actually says. Listen to the program, he isn’t the monster the MSM makes him out to be.

  121. Damn, don’t you people know I got to practice my trumpet? Anyway, I love the comments and am honored to be in this group as it’s influence rises. The guests here make it even moreso an exciting time. I don’t have all the time Id like to have to comment, but I’d like to respond to Ms. Hill, who I will say, seems far more willing to enage in a dialogue, than any of the other MSM black folks, dudes like WIlbon and Scoop, dudes who simply ignore us while glad-handing the Michael -Republican’s buy sneakers too-Jordan’s of the world. But I digress.

    1.”- If Jason didn’t write for Fox or the KC Star, but wrote for the Black Press, or Vibe, or another predominately Af-Am media forum, would you be as bothered by his opinions?”

    his opinions are wretched, self-promoting, black hating, illogical, lacking in any sort of analysis but the basest and racist sort. I’d find them pathetic if he was walking down the street ranting them. The fact that he goes on MSM outlets and sells them to the folks who hate black people and who actively look for black Judas’ in order to maintain their sense of racial innocence makes his opinions, combined with his willingness to shuck and jive for the white folks while profiting personallhy, that of a traitor worthy of death IMO, and I’m not kidding.

    2.- Do you consider “personal responsibility” themes in the black community the new racism?

    Look, black folks have always preached the term, and anyone who has ever made it as a black person knows full well how personal responsibility must be manifest in order to have anything in this world, from material goods to personal freedom to actual physical freedom. The term in the context of todays racial dialogue is nothing more than a smokescreen and has been so for the past 37 yers ever since the Reagan campaign preached it to the white folks as a way to allow them to get over their collective guilt. But the debate by those like Scrapplin’ Lips and to a lessor extent yourself is never taken to it’s logical conclusion. Any debate in which the racial climate vis-s-vis black/white relations is discussed that touches on assigning blame, MUST also, in ABSOLUTELY NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, blame white America for it’s continual racism and lack of willingness to treat us as though we are as fully American, as fully human as they are. When you and/or Scrapplin’ lips, Milchael Wilbon, Scoop Jackson, Oprah, Cosby or any of the other famous blacks who routinely criticize black flks in front of white folks, but pussy out when it comes to expressing explicitly how pervasive white racism is, stop shirking your responsibilities, then the dialouge can be engaged. Until then, we’re simply setting the terms for the debate.

    3.”- Does hip hop bear any responsibility in the perception of African Americans? If so, to what degree?”

    A. Hip Hop is very diverse and full of musical genius. In fact, it’s the first American music since Jazz that has as it’s core musical genius. The stuff that’s allowed to become mainstream is, for the most part, watered down crap that bears no relationship to the young men and women who seek to revolutionize the musical scene. If anyone wants to blame Hip-Hop for anything, blame the white controlled distribution network that limits what it released to that which portrays us as materialistic buffoons with no moral integrity.

    All that being said, to attack Hip Hop is simply absurd on it’s face. Popular music has been attacked by fear-mongering moralists since Jelly Roll Morton and Louis Armstrong invented Jazz. And virtually every mnusical revolution in this country since then has gotten the narrow-minded puritans up in arms. It’s a tired, cliche argument that really needs to be put to rest.

    4.”What you spoke of is an issue I was getting at in terms of my earnest questions. Honestly, no columnist, black or otherwise, can control how people react to them…to a degree, anyway.

    I know Bill Cosby has taken a lot of heat — personally, I’m cool with Cos because he’s given more money to uplift black folks than just about anyone — but I remember something he said that was especially true: White people are going to think what they think of us, regardless. We can’t control that anymore than we can control the weather.”

    That’s a cop-out pure and simple. Sure people are going to think what they wish to an extent. But there are many who are emboldened when fools like Cosby and Scrapplin’ lips write what they write and say what they say, Their ridiculous argument can just as easily be completely turned around on them by asking them if they really think their message is gonna do any good, proffered with a smile in white folks faces and a shiv in the backs of those demonized? Also, there are many who are too stupid to analyze the situation and will be taken in by specious arguments profered by these fools with black faces. When the MSM bacially only allows criticism of blacks but does not hold whites accountable for their racism and when the few blacks who are allowed to express themselves in the MSM spew hatred for blacks, is it any wonder that so many are angry. I’ve had it up to here and then some with people who fail to grasp this simple reality and who hide behind an argument that anyone with a high school education can easily dismantle.

  122. Well said brotha kevdog.

  123. Jemele Hill Says:

    Pacman as Blackman? Now, that’s good stuff.

    I agree with something LeBatard (sp?) said when we were on Outside the Lines a week or so ago. No one is patently evil, and no one is patently good. The problem with sports is that we seek to define people as one or the other. We also don’t leave much room for them switching characters. The truth, as always, is somewhere down the middle.

    Eric, thank you for the rundown of progressive music sites. Luckily, a good friend of mine is in the industry and keeps me in the loop. Like I said, I don’t have a problem finding good music. The rest of America — present company excluded, of course — I’m not so sure. We all know certain things sell strictly because they fit a particular stereotype of who *they believe us to be. Hence why I say that I’m uninterested in any serious dialogue or town hall meetings about cleaning up hip hop that doesn’t include a producer, major label owner, distributor, rapper and No. 1 consumer…the white American teen.

  124. @Kevdog
    How can you call Bill Cosby a fool. That man opened more doors for blacks than you ever will. yet you demean him like you do, the same for Colin powell, and Clarence Thomas.

    They are positive examples to children what you can be in this world and you all put them down, just because they don’t drink the victimhood Kool-Aid.

  125. This whole thing was highly entertaining.

  126. Mizzo, thanks for the invitation to chime in as this is such a very important discussion.

    “To ignore or not to ignore” — that is the question… about responding to Jason Whitlock.

    I’ve personally vascillated on this question 1000 times. I’ve written columns about him: (see Whitlock-Gone-Wild: http://www.cosellout.com/?p=107 and then i’ve subseqently sworn to myself that I would never write another word about him because he is beneath any decent person’s time. This is the position that I’ve recently held… through the despicable 2nd jena column, through the ridiculous Chad johnson column, and through just about every other column. And then comes the Sean Taylor column… …..My personal silence will now and forevor be reversed… and here is why…

    No matter how horrible a journalist Whitlock is, the sad fact of the matter is that he has many followers. And for that reason ONLY- he is worth our time. It just took me this long to figure this out. My apologies. The only thing more disgusting than the columns he writes are his comment sections. His ability to validate white bigotry does more damage than 1000 Imus’. I have no doubt that David Duke LOVES Jason Whitlock. I literally want to vomit when i read a commenter say something like: “Jason, thanks for the truth on the Jena 6, focusing on nonsense like this detracts from REAL racism”. This is the same stance that Duke has on Jena.

    Let’s be clear: Jason Whitlock is both the worst and most dangerous sportswriter in America. He found a lucrative niche (blame hip-hop for everything), and has milked it for all it’s worth. He is no different than the hardcore artists he routinely condemns. The great irony is that Whitlock IS the 50 Cent of sports journalism. He is a straight up hustler. But unlike 50, Whitlock is 100% fraud. In that way he is really more like Vanilla Ice.

    But the discussion is part of a bigger societal picture that is about a war on our youth: ALL youth but particularly youth of color. Unfortunately, Whitlock has managed to help unite white bigots with the older black generation that rejects hip-hop and hip hop culture because important distinctions aren’t being made between “corporate hip-hop” and what is the true diversity within hip hop (here is my take on “How YOU Can Save Hip-Hop”: http://www.cosellout.com/?p=6). This marriage of straight-up racism with “adultism” (a coined phrase in the youthwork community but rarely used outside of it) has put our nations youth in a terrible position. There is a crisis in adult leadership (of all colors) which is embamatic of Whitlock. Our young people do not need any more moralizing lectures, they need our sincere, honest, and non-judgemental help and unconditional support. There is a place for “tough-love”, but “tough” without the “love” only works for sportswriting hustlers instead of those sincerely interested in creating positive change. REAL agents of change aren’t writing to 95% white (and often conservative) audiences for Fox, they are rolling their sleeves up and are getting in the trenches. In short, our youth are rejecting adults because adults are rejecting them, NOT the other way around! In the youth-services community who are smart enough to EMBRACE the many positive aspects within hip-hop culture to reach youth in ways that school systems all across America have failed. I’ve got so much more to say on this shit that it will have to come in the form of a couple of new columns.

    I want to add something as it relates to “white sports writers”. Outside of Dave Zirin (who i agree with all his comments here AND his previous anti-Whitlock columns), my greatest dissappointment is that I haven’t seen the establishment of white mainstream sports writers try to take Whitlock down. Such inaction puts the few of our nations black mainstream sportswriters in a precarious and unfair position. Why should relative newbies like Jemele or Scoop be the one to battle Whitlock? Where are the writers who have built a life’s work in sports journalism. Even if you forget the racial aspect for a second, Whitlock is staining the profession of sports journalism, period. Where is Frank Deford on this shit? Where is Bob Costas? Where is Al Michaels? Where are some of the old guard heavyweights? Why are they so silent? Do they secretly agree with Whitlock’s racist ramblings? Is he actually speaking FOR them? Is that what the silence around Whitlock confirms? This will be my personal angle that I will proceed about Whitlock in future writing.

    Personally, as of the Taylor column consider me one more soldier in the ant-Whitlock fold. Hell, I might even change COSELLOUT’s name to “Whitlock Watch”! This will have to be a grassnets effort coming from sports bloggers. Of course, our friend dwil has also put together a nice compendium on Whitlock. Bottom line: The mainstream folks just aren’t going to tackle Whitlock (I’m sorry Jemele – I don’t mean to perpetuate these categories, but sometimes it just applies). The white writer won’t touch him, and I just don’t know how productive it is for mainstream black writers to keep focusing on him. Whitlock will just respond with his own rip-job, and everybody might end up losing. (i could be wrong on this last point)

    My apologies for the rambling nature, but if there is any man who can succeed in making me incoherent, it is Jason Whitlock. Kind of like new gun purchasers, I usually need a registration waiting period to respond intelligently to anything Whitlock writes!

  127. Just read kevdogs post! Amen!

    And yes Jemele the good vs. evil paradigm is EXACTLY what is wrong with sports. Everyone has got their box. And we all know which box black athletes are predisposed to go into. No one is actually human anymore. EVEN if someone breaks into their house and murders them. Sports journalism is at an all-time low. And although I’ve been highly critical of some of your select columns, overall I believe that you are more part of the solution than the problem… not that you need my friggin’ validation or anything… just saying…

  128. mizzo, just so you know, I left a long-ass comment that is “awaiting moderation”

  129. Mizzo, I hope you dont mind, I don’t want to throw the convo off track, but a friend wrote this and it conveys a message I think a lot of people here agree with:

    http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/content?oid=oid%3a163588

  130. Gotcha bruh. I’ll get it out of spam now. Miranda I never mind as long as it’s positive.

  131. DM

    Don’t be mistaken, I love Bill Cosby. The good he’s done can never be erased and his contributions are many and well documented. But he’s grown old and senile. At this point he is a fool, as we all have been and will be at various points.

    As to Colin Powell, I have a good, though not great deal of respect for him.

    As to Uncle Clarence, surely you jest. The man is a devil pure and simple, and an ignorant, medicore one at that.

    As to the ridiculous straw man argument you profer as to why I put write what I do, it just speaks to your lack of cogent thought and rigid mindset.

    And finally, I’ll take my contributions to humanity in general and black folks in particular and sleep very well at night Bruh.

  132. Orgin, MODI

    Thanks and respect.

  133. Miranda

    Thanks for the piece.

  134. MODI

    Absolutely on point.

  135. All I can say is wow. This is a great discussion.

    Thanks Modi for ya signature late break great. I hope you all had a good day at work. Now it’s time to relax.

    We are sure this discussion will continue through the weekend, but TSF personally would like to thank everyone who has chimed in with so many thoughtful comments. Goodness…

    You all truly amaze us and we’re humbled to be at the reigns of such an important discussion.

    Jemele Hill, thank you for your many posts on TSF. We all are proud of the way you stick in there–with your gloves up ;) I love the way your light is shining. It wasn’t bad at all this time huh?

    Dave Zirin, dude you are the truth. Like I’ve told you many times, you have inspired me since I read your Ali post on BSN. Keep fighting big brotha almighty.

    These types of discussions have to continue and not just here.

    I hope you all truly understand TSF’s efforts to kick this out in the open. If we don’t shed light now on what sickens us, then when is it going to happen? Seize the moment people in whatever you do. Nothing is promised to any of us.

    Lets get it!

    Last but sure as hell not least, thank you Jason Whitlock for at least making an attempt to engage TSF. You didn’t stick around and answer the pertinent questions, but at least you showed up. You are welcome anytime. I hope you read the words above and one day find it in your soul to understand what these verbal and scribe chin checker sites have been saying to you since Vegas. Don’t sell your soul brotha. That ass could get hot.

    I will not give up hope in you.

    Give me a shout anytime.

    Peace.

  136. First, let me say thank you Jemele and Jason for participating. I don’t agree with everything you write, but I respect your opinions.

    I wish I could have gotten in the convo earlier, but my job wouldn’t allow for it.

    I don’t agree with everything Jason writes, but I will give him credit where it’s due. I agreed with him earlier this year about ESPN. He made the statement that it’s not a good thing when one organization controls so much of the conversation. He’s absolutely right about that. ESPN pretty much controls most sports fans consciousness. For instance, me being a huge Steelers fan, I think it’s ridiculous that they are making a story out of nothing about Anthony Smith’s comments about the Patriots. He did NOT make a guarantee. He said that if the Steelers do everything that they are supposed to do, then they should win. To hear ESPN say it, he made an out and out guarantee. Whitlock also stood up against ESPN golden boy, Mike Lupica. Huge crime as far as ESPN is concerned. Lupica makes comments, but then doesn’t expect to be called out on them. I had to give a big ups to Jason for that one.
    My biggest peeve with journalists and race, is that it tends that when there’s something about racial minorities, they have to make sure to pepper something negative in it. When a black athlete dies, they tend to highlight all of the negative stuff and make the story more about that, than the good that they do. If Brett Favre were to die tomorrow, I don’t think his painkiller addiction would be a big part of the story. It would probably get a cursory paragraph.
    Ever notice how whenever a conversation is about the a sport with a lot of minorities, they make too much money. The minorities are blamed for the rising ticket prices, and everything isn’t like it was in their imaginary worlds in the 50′s and 60′s. No one ever blames the mostly white male owners. The money they’re making makes the player’s money look like chump change. I can not remember hearing anyone saying that NASCAR drivers make too much money.
    All of this being said, I have found Whitlock’s pieces lately, to be sub-par. Blaming everything on hip hop? That’s just a cop out. I love hip hop. I don’t love everything about it. I do think that there’s too much disrespecting black women, too much materialism, and way too many studio thugs. History is littered with people blaming everything on a genre of music. From the blues to jazz to rock n’ roll to rap. If it’s true that music effects people that much, then I’d think that they’d want to go after movie makers, television networks, and video game companies as well. Like KRS-One said in “Free Mumia”, “America was violent before rap, fact.” My best guesses on why the white reporters focus on hip hop is because they don’t like white kids adopting the hip hop style and don’t make a real effort to understand minorities. Why do you have black reporters going after hip hop so much, I have no idea. Whitlock portrays too many stereotypes in his columns. There are enough white columnists out there making those observations without a black one helping out.
    I’m happy for sites such as the Starting Five, Cosellout, Stop Mike Lupica, etc., for giving us an alternative to the mainstream media. I wish that some of the MSM would welcome more varied opinions.
    I am glad that I found this site, and I enjoy conversation. I value seeing different people’s views. Let’s keep it civil. Nothing will be solved by us sitting here and calling each other names. It just further divides us. Just remember these words from one of my favorite songs:

    “Disagree with what I say, but respect my right to say it muthaf*%ka.”

    “The Streets is Callin’” – Edo G

  137. I love TSF! You all are brilliant. Worked a double last night and came home to a work of art. Like a town meeting of sorts. I have been far too tired to chime in, but trust you all have given so much thought provoking realness to this topic. Hill, Zirin, Miranda, Sankofa, Modi, Origin, KevDog and Temple3 have been my favorites. The creative juices flowing from your keyboards has been priceless. T3 having your post emailed by way of Mizzo was classic. I just want to thank you all. I’ll be going back to work this evening with a smile on my face. As a sports fan that has been tired of the MSM for years now, I am so fortunate to have found this community. God Bless you all and hopefully TSF will be a vessel for change.

  138. Mizzo,

    How could I forget you. Thanks bro, you keep us all thinking and talking. Before I came to this site I felt like I was on an island. Watching sports commentary and being pissed all the time. It seemed that on the regular some of my favorite athletes were getting body slammed by the MSM for no good reason. Sports is supposed to be fun not a constant soap opera. I gave them up years ago. You, Dwil and JWieler brought a new and refreshing voice. It’s like you all knew my thoughts . TSF family has provided me with a place to share and again I thank you. Keep doing what your doing boys. Now I gotta go back to work. Good Night. To quote Ice Cube”Today Was A Good Day”

  139. With all due respect to Ms. Hill and those who answered your questions, I believe it might have been useful to frame the discussion differently.

    1. What is the traditional role and value of the Black press (independent, black-owned and operated media) with respect to collecting, analyzing and disseminating information and perspectives to its customer base?
    – Your question about Whitlock’s employment, for me, is extremely diversionary. It drags us down a path of irrelevance. This is not about personal attacks – save for a few calls for bodily harm to the man — and much of that could be rectified easily enough.

    2. What is the recurring and unresolved dilemma facing Africans in the US, on the continent and throughout the diaspora?
    – The “personal responsibility” thing is akin to organizing deck chairs on the Titanic. It’s like yelling, “You nigras had best behave! Never you mind that iceberg!” I’m sure it was not intended that way – but our people face acute crises around health care, nutrition, education, housing and wealth accumulation. The behavior of a drunk athlete is MINOR in comparison to, for example, that of health care or hospital executives who choose to kill people ever day by denying service to poor Black folk (among others). Even the so-called “Black KKK’s” body count pales in comparison to that totaled by those who escape JW’s wrath.

    3. To what degree must Black people invest, develop and own cultural production to provide a viable economic platform for Black communities? What should the focal points be and how might this best be operationalized?
    – Again, I don’t quite get the hip-hop responsibility question since Black folks don’t own hip hop – and never have. I know that is a nearly impossible concept for folks to full appreciate, but if albums were diamonds, most entertainers would be on their hands and knees sifting through dirt. The dollars are different, but the ownership of product and residual revenue streams is the same. Mass production and distribution are more difficult to write about than DWI’s or dog fights – but it’s more important.

    With that said, I recognize a few things: the dialogue is what it is – and these questions are not accessible for everyone. It’s not typical sports talk and it is not necessarily provocative. Still, the fact remains that those questoins need to be answered. In many circles, they’ve already been answered. While we bear responsibility for resolving our conundrum, I trust you know that we are not the primary author – after all, even if you believed it, you couldn’t prove it.

  140. One other thing:

    I don’t much appreciate the negative comments made about Mr. Whitlock’s appearance. I’m not sure what agenda that serves or what benefit accrues to any of us. It seems mostly like a petty depletion of personal spirit power.

  141. Thank you T3. I couldn’t have said it better.

  142. Everyone,

    I’m coming late to the party, but I’ve got some thoughts of my own:

    Fist, to Ms. Hill, I don’t always agree with some of your stances, but the fact that you come on foreign soil and mix it up with us makes you a true soldier in my book.

    Onto the matter of personel responsibilty, on Monday here in B-More nine brothers and sisters between the ages of 14 and 15, were arrested and charged with assulting a husband and wife on a bus. When the woman tried to sit down on the bus, she was told that seats were reserved. When after a third time she sat down, she was told to move, after she said no, she was jumped by all nine, when her husband intervened, he too was jumped. When the bus came to a stop, the nine dragged the woman off the bus and proceeded to kick and punch the woman. After the police were called, the bus driver was also attacked when he tried to help the woman. While her husband received minor injuries, his wife suffered cuts to her scalp, bruised ribs and a fractured eye socket in two places. The reason for the attack? The nine accused the woman of calling then “nigger” when they refused to let her sit down. I was told as a child that it’s not what you’re called, it’s what you answer to. And even if she did say it, does it justify mob violence? The fall of any civilization always begins with the death of civility, and hip-hop ain’t got shit to do with that.
    Even if each one of us reaches back to help a young person, it is the responsibility of the individual receiving help to take advantage of the opportunity given to them. The problem itoday is that words like responsibility and consequences have ceased to be taught and when there are no boundaries, there are no limits to what people will do to “get theirs.” If I’m rambling, forgive me, but I’m tired of bad behavior being treated as an expression of freedom. From Bart Scott throwing an official’s flag, to the assault mentioned above, it’s time for us who grew up knowing better, to show people there is freedom in accepting responsibility, that there really is ” a more excellent way”.

    As for Whitlock, name-calling really won’t solve the problem, but his ducking places such as TSF,SOMM, and the like won’t do the trick either. Fact is, he’s out for fame and he doesn’t care who he screws over to get there, whereever there is.

  143. Allen wrote this:

    “Why must we offer a solution for what Whitlock does? Isn’t pointing out the fallacy in his logic solution enough? I can criticize President Bush, but what solutions can I offer to fix the problems he’s created.

    That whole “offer a solution” spiel is stupid.”

    If there’s anything stupid here, it’s the immature suggestion in Allen’s post that offering a solution isn’t necessary. According to your logic, sir, it’s better to nail one foot to the floor and run around in a circle wailing than to get both feet moving toward a workable solution.

    (And I won’t even touch the idiotic George Bush angle.. except to say that one solution might be to ELECT SOMEONE ELSE NEXT TIME! That’s called a built-in, constitutional solution. But according to Allen’s ‘logic,’ anti-Bush citizens ought to just capitulate to Bush’s eternal rule and resolve themselves to offering Bush the king’s crown and forego the democratic process. Allen, this is America, not Zimbabwe or Cuba. Just a reminder; you can thank me later….)

    Your argument lends weight to the suggestion that some people want to keep racism going just so they can make a career out of shouting about racism. (Not my argument, by the way, but AN argument made by some.) Did you really read what you wrote, Allen? I hardly believe that you did. Only a foolish child would wail and scream about a problematic situation without trying to figure out a way to solve it. My initial post on here wasn’t to belittle the criticism of Whitlock; I was genuinely interested in what anyone felt should be done about him. And I’ll come back to my original point: there’s nothing to be done. The guy is free to write what he wants, however he wants to write it, and this site is free to criticize Whitlock any way it wants. One of the beauty’s of our system is that you can hate the messenger and the message, but you can’t make him shut up or make the message go away. I happen now to live in a country where people are routinely “disappeared” for what they’ve written. Quite often, these people are never “re-appeared.” It sounded to me as if some posters here would be happy if Whitlock were somehow silenced. How profoundly sad that would be, when all one would need to do would be to direct one’s children to a Whitlock piece and say “Now see this…. Please don’t ever think the way this writer thinks, and never forget that some people always will.”

    I’ve enjoyed reading this entire thread. It’s been entertaining and educational. But I’m not going to sit back and be referred to as stupid by someone who obviously lacks the intelligence to understand his own post, or if he does understand it, he shows an alarmingly flawed and immature sense of logic.

  144. Kevdog,

    As always right on time, I share your feelings for Cosby. Cosby is for his people, that is the most important thing of all. I think he gets frustrated with where we are, and I too share that frustration. His criticism was genuine.

    As for D-mac’s conservative nation -

    Colin Powell worked for G. Bush, Katrina G. Bush, all I need to say!

    R. Limbaugh – that dude for years criticized drug offenders, for year swore about the need to lock people up. Yet when he was found to be using illegal drugs, drug trafficking and doctor shopping … his opinion changed in a heartbeat. He’s lucky he’s not a black athlete the government would have filed 10 different felony counts on his sorry azz.

    C Thomas – The man is an idiot, every single ruling he makes on that court shows just how out of touch, he is with reality. He’s the kind of black guy, where in spite of having achieved great success, I take no pride in his achievement.

  145. I bow to the talent here. I really like this blog.

    I’m new to it. New to blogging.

    I missed the whole thing today, and it took me what seemed like about 10 hours to read up to the end (how do y’all do it??). Not sure I want to focus my energy on Jason Whitlock but I do want to contribute by pointing out a couple of things and then going with the flow into some other related areas:

    1) 90% of rap music sales are to white people.
    2) 90% of rap music execs are white people.
    3) 99% of all distribution (including amazon, itunes, Sam Goody, etc.) are controlled by white people.
    4) is it any wonder that white-controlled producers tell their artists, “be more real” and “just be yourself more” as euphemisms to encourage more minstrelsy?

    I say minstrelsy because as a historian I see a direct parallel between black face and “rap face.” Rap face is the new black face.

    What changed this equation in the 1910s was the phonograph and the radio, which evolved people beyond sheet music and parlor pianos into a serious demand for black music (ragtime, blues, jazz) that was created its own way. For the first time, black folks could depict themselves as who they were, not as on a minstrel stage coon show.

    This evolution of the phonograph and black music and the emergence of opportunities for accurate depiction led directly to the period known today as the Harlem Renaissance.

    We are in line and hungry for depicting ourselves more accurately. I don’t blame some young kid who wants to be paid, who has a manipulative exec, and the tracks get laid. Enough said. So its not about the rapper, as naive as they might be, but people wanna get paid and they’re not thinking about social consciousness all the time. Why should they. Were you, when you were 20 and if you were faced with that kind of paycheck?

    We need to understand the dynamics, and the blueprints of people that makes them do what they do, rather than blame and attack people. With compassion. Make an effort to understand. The good news is this, a blueprint can be changed. Our conditioning can be reconditioned. By our own choice. Its just that most of us don’t have any idea that we have this choice available or that exercising it will make a difference.

    That’s where all of us conscious people come in …

    The blog is a great thing. People don’t yet realize how powerful and effective the blog is in the hands of black people. There is the power to change conditioning. To build confidence. To provide sanctuary. To free a voice. AND ….. to get paid while doing it.

    Don’t you see that that last point is the difference maker?

    If you do a blog and you work for someone else, you are limited in your scope and voice. You have to sneak onto someone else’s blog to make your points. Or you have to bid for ‘massa.’ Or worse. You operate from fear.

    Now, with the blog, and with Google Ads, you can get paid AND make your points, without fear but rather coming from love and compassion to speak your truth.

    And there’s no way to stop it. Just like no one can stop your thoughts. Don’t you see that the internet is mimicking in digital form our thoughts and their connectedness to the universe? What used to be a positive thought that traveled around the world metaphysically is now mimicked in the blogosphere.

    That’s powerful stuff! (Let’s remember that our thoughts still go around the world and are still more powerful then digital versions but blogs are a damn good replica.)

    That’s why I follow the simple principle: that what you focus on expands. So, why focus on what you don’t want, when you can focus on what you want? We just don’t be doin’ that. It takes discipline and courage.

    Or not.

    When my three year old asks, “Can I have some chocolate milk?” and if I say “no” he says “But, can I have some chocolate milk?” He doesn’t acknowledge the “no” and it doesn’t exist for him. He doesn’t ask, “why not?” He doesn’t even change his tone. He just keeps looking me dead in the eye and saying “Can I have some chocolate milk?” His desire knows no boundaries. (BTW two can play that game.)

    Point is this: My 3-year-old doesn’t know jack shit about metaphysics. Or does he? Maybe he hasn’t unlearned it yet. Hmm.

    I see this new equation looming for all of the bloggers on this post:

    blog=phonograph=New Renaissance

    So be it.

    One last point, and its about the Law of Polarity, which says that in everything really terrible there is something really, really great in there. Focus on the part that’s really, really great. Whatever that might be, even if you can’t find it yet ’cause you know it must be there, because the Law of Polarity says so. I do believe this can be applied to some of the subject focus in this post.

  146. “Even if each one of us reaches back to help a young person, it is the responsibility of the individual receiving help to take advantage of the opportunity given to them.”

    Des, I only half agree because a person’s ability to “receive abundance” can and often does become crippled in the process of growing up in America, especially for many African Americans. Fear of success and doubt about self-worth feed off of each other and are the opposite sides of the same coin that plagues us. We need to go deeper than “responsibility.” We need to hold our-own-selves accountable for robbing our children of their ability to receive, if that’s what we done did.

  147. Yesterday, I posted while skimming previous comments. Today I read them all and just wanted to say how much i appreciate so much of the enlightening commentary. I’ve got like 50 responses, but instead will just remark that there were posts by Miranda, Eric, Temple, Kevdog, Origin and others that I’m forgetting that really resonated with me.

    A couple extra thought for Will, and all those that believe Whitlock derves a place at the table. Whitlock’s platform should be EARNED, it is a PRIVILEGE. Of course, he has a constitutional right to say whatever he wants, but he has an ethical responsibility to the field of journalism. As such he has been guilty of malpractice too many times. In virtually any other profession there exists a system to ensure accountability… accept sports journalism. i for one want him to lose his platform to 1000 more responsible journalists. Freedom of speech DOES NOT mean freedom to really suck at your job and keep it anyway. This point was lost on many Imus supporters and seems to be lost here.

  148. “White people are going to think what they think of us, regardless. We can’t control that anymore than we can control the weather.”

    Jemele, I also want to reiterate Kevdogs dead-on comment about this statement being false. But first i want to state how much i appreciate that you are willing to engage on this site beyond the mainstream circles.

    In no way, shape, or form do I believe that I know “black people” more than any black folk themselves. But I do believe that I know “white people” very well. And i can assure you as sure as the sun rising and setting that prominent black voice CAN CONTROL to some degree how white people think. kevdog used the word “emboldened”. That is exactly the right word. Whitlock emboldens latent white bigotry to rise to the surface. Bigotry is A DISEASE and a very contagious one at that. Just like a sudden cold front will bring a rise in colds and flu, the likes of Whitlock will provide a climate for white bigotry to flourish.

    Here is a related test-tube example of bigotry flourishing. After John Ameachi came out of the closet, he said that he received tons of poitive emails. However, the day after Tim hardaway’s comments Ameachi reported getting scores of hateful and vile emails. Why not before hardaway’s homophobic words? hardaway emboldened, empowered, and validated the bigotry of others. Every single time Whitlock writes a column he does this.

  149. Claude,

    I am in agreement with you . Accountability is another word that has become foreign in our community as well. You’re right about the fear of success, for some there IS safety in failure. We’ll never know how many doctors, lawyers, or scientists would have come out of the neighborhood but for the crab mentality. For some of us, gaining knowledge was considered “acting white” and thinking you were better than everyone else. Thank you for the enlightenment.

  150. des,

    Thank you!

    To go a step further, if we believe in ourselves more, that is, erase doubts about our own self-worth (through deciding to examine our blueprints and reconditioning that which doesn’t work), then we’ll no longer need the validation of others, some of whom are our own dearest friends (up ’til now).

    This will allow us to be free to succeed at will, regardless of fears that our current friends will abandon us (or vice versa), and fully knowing that we’ll attract and create new friendships that serve us even better, that is, we’ll have overcome our fear of success.

    To be ready to recondition and overcome, each of us must have a vision that’s MASSIVE enough, so that tiny petty roadbumps seem insignificant, otherwise we’ll stumble each time somebody says “boo!”

    Just sharing!

  151. modi, al michaels is a right wing republician.

  152. Claude I am with you on what your saying aboutthe blue print. For decades we’ve had different people with briliant insights and blue print as a ladder up to viablity. The struggle we have as a community though is in the implemenatation stage.

    Sometimes we get into our own way, if the enemy doesn’t get there first. It’s unfortunate that in these time of short attention span and instant gratification that something as simple as personal responsibility and self actualization for unhuru appears foreign for all but a few.

    We need to divert the current towards self destruction at the point where pre-teen meets teen or even before, because they still have hope and potential. As we get older the cement sets and we become what the pavlovian controlers expect us to be.

    And yes! We are still afraid of us, and untill we can look at us in that mirror and like the view and want to work with that view, it will be tuff slugging.

    Nice post man

  153. Hey, MODI…

    Whitlock is guilty of journalistic malpractice in whose eyes? A segemnt of the public who doesn’t agree with him? That’s hardyl grounds for him losing his job, or his platform, as you put it.

    And keep in mind, he’s a columnist, not a journalist, per se. Columnists are paid to be controversial, and they’re paid to be opinionated. There are plenty of columnists I don’t like (and I don’t read Whitlock) so I don’t read them. I think Paul Krugman is as “dangerous” as some people here find Whitlock, and I think Limbaugh and that whole Air America crowd go too far in the shit they try to pull, but more power to them. They have something they want to say. Like it or not, some people agree with them.

    It just seems to me that the common thread running through this….. well, thread… is that some people here want all black people to think and act the same way. Whitlock goes a different direction from the people on this website. Isn’t he free to do that? Calling himirresponsible is a sunjective judgment, because obviously he feels he’s telling it like it is.

  154. …I don’t read Whitlock…”

    So why are you even putting forth an opinion on that issue? The whole premise of your argument is null and void then if you don’t know why we speak of him the way we do.

    “Whitlock is guilty of journalistic malpractice in whose eyes?” Mine for one, and though others would say the same, I will speak for myself. As, well in my eyes, if you are a shit disturber, if you throw shit up against a wall some will splash back at you.

    I, We, independent thinking people who have reasoning capacity reserve the right to chastise he/she/they who create a climate of hatred and racist backlash against any segment of our ethnic group.

    We EXPECT Europeans to have a hate on for us, for the most part it makes us STAND UP! When our own hate on us, it drives a nail into the fragile community already decimated by more than 500 years of the most brutal of holocaust known to man. As well as centuries of genocidal pillaging by some no worse than physical devils.

    I am sure if you experience a European journalist talking hateful things about your people the way Jason talks about his, you will demand his firing. And before you come back with some lame platitude… who feels it knows it!

  155. As always Sankofa, you speak soul truth. Thank you brotha.

    Will, while I appreciate your dissent because it’s needed in any worthwhile discussion, you must understand Jason Whitlock brings out a fire in Blacks that is so unnecessary. It makes no sense that we should be dealing with this bs from a sports columnist.

    We will not stand for someone comparing Blacks to the KKK. It just ain’t happening! Especially from one of our own!

    Look, Whitlock can say whatever he wants to say, but he must understand there are consequences for his actions.

    He will get booed on any HBCU campus before he hits the door and that’s a shame.

    If our future dislikes him, he has none.

    I personally don’t hate the man. I hope he finds his way and makes a more important impression on society. He has a powerful voice.

    It’s funny, after I interviewed him, I would root for him just like most of us do for the people we come in contact with. I would email or im him how much I enjoyed a column and then want to jump through the screen his very next piece. That is the mark of a good columnist when you consider the definition of one. He does his job well, but for Blacks, it is not good enough. We want more out of our prominent voices because of our rich history. Jason is a villain and Blacks aren’t comfortable with the Bad Guy. We want more.

    I’m pulling for the brotha. I hope he ultimately comes out of this revered.

    Just passed this from another journalist. Whitlock’s words after Wiley passed:

    Paving the path | From Jason Whitlock

    Ralph Wiley, my friend, my mentor, counseled me often. Once, I said something that Ralph found profound. We were discussing the dangers of black people buying into the Chris Rock notion that there are black people and there are n——. I told Ralph, if it’s true, then black people better go to bed every night and thank God for n——.

    “We owe everything to n——, Ralph. We wouldn’t have our jobs if it wasn’t for n——. The only reason we have these fancy mainstream media jobs now is because poor, ghetto black folks rioted after Martin was murdered. The inner cities were on fire, and it was too damn hot for white reporters to go in the ‘hood and find out what was going on. So they gave notebooks and pens to the black janitors and told them to go find out what was going on. We owe our jobs to the ghetto folks who were mad as hell, refused to take it anymore and started tossing around Molotov Cocktails. Poor blacks do all the dirty work and middle class blacks reap the benefits. All the real freedom fighters die early, go to jail and never get to enjoy the freedom they won.”

    That’s how I feel about Ralph. He threw Molotov Cocktails. And because he did, guys like yours truly, Wilbon, Rhoden, Stephen A. Smith, Jeffri Chadiha, Jim Trotter, Monte Poole, Shaun Powell, Bryan Burwell, J.A. Adande, Drew Sharp, John Smallwood, Tim Smith, Phil Taylor, Terrance Harris, Clarence Hill, Terry Foster and countless others have an easier road to travel.

    ???

  156. damnnnnn! Is this like something out of the twilight zone?

    I guess mr bigshot forgot those he passed on his way up the ladder to suck-cess.

    Thanks for sharing that with the family mizzo, I have always maintaned that in the 20th century no one can say the “didn’t know”.

    “As always Sankofa, you speak soul truth. Thank you brotha”…no thank you man, as a youngster that was first interested and then became a frustrated writer, you and the family got me interested in writing again.

    Peace and blessings

  157. Mizzo…..if that’s not evidence of JW selling his soul along the way, I don’t know what is. I’d like to believe the real JW wrote “Paving the Path” and like all prodigal sons, will return home someday.

  158. BCW — good point — bad example

    Sankofa — much appreciated!

    Will B.: I can take Sanfofa’s lead and give you example after example of journalistic malpractice, but if you haven’t already read Whitlock’s columns for yourself, then you might not be qualified to enter the discussion, and I shouldn’t waste further time with a response. But let me ask you how far your “anything goes” journalism mindset extends: If Joseph Goebbels was around today with a weekly column espousing the very same Nazi propoganda from 70 years ago, would you have a problem with it? You know, shouldn’t EVERY VOICE get a place at the big media table?

  159. “It’s funny, after I interviewed him, I would root for him just like most of us do for the people we come in contact with. I would email or him how much I enjoyed a column and then want to jump through the screen his very next piece. That is the mark of a good columnist when you consider the definition of one.” … “I’m pulling for the brotha. I hope he ultimately comes out of this revered.”

    mizzo, I hope that I’m not showing bad form here since you are the host and all, but how exactly is it a mark of a good columnist to make you “jump through the sceen”. By that definition Jay Mariotti, Skip Bayless, Mike Lupica, Mitch Albom, and Woody Paige should all win the Pulitzer Prize. ANYBODY can make you jump through the screen. Good columnists are those who PROVIDE TRUTH or at the very minimum, even DESIRE to find truth. At their best, they are more interested in improving society over their wallets. Whitlock, like the previous columnists mentioned, is a hustler. And personally, I think that we CAN knock the hustle. And MUST knock the hustle.

    In my mind, Whitlock has shamed the legacy of Ralph Wiley in every way imaginable, starting with that statement at his death. That piece reminds me of how opponents of affirmative action have perverted Martin Luther King’s name, words, and legacy to support their cause…

    I respectfully wonder if your past cordial dealings with Whitlock is influencing your wishful optimism (something I am often accused of myself) about his possible redemption. In my mind, the ONLY way that Whitlock can “come out revered” is if he basically renounces 80% of everything he has ever written in the last few years. I just don’t see that happening. If he ends up seeing the light, then I will consider it a very unexpected bonus along the sportswriting equivalent of George Wallace marching with Civil Rights workers in the 1990s. But short of that, fuck Whitlock. The only thing I’m pulling for is his immediate dismissal from his job. Enough damage has been done. There are a 1000 other more qualified young aspiring black journalists (white, latino, asian, and native American too!) out there who not only deserve his slot, but those of the other hacks mentioned. I’m pulling for all of them.

  160. Modi maybe I should have explained myself further. I apologize for appearing vague in my response.

    You are correct that columnists should provide truth. I’m in total agreement.

    In this despicable time of journalism, stalking emotions is what makes papers money–hence Jason Whitlock is a good columnist. There’s no getting around that and I find it disgusting.

    As far as my past dealings with Whitlock are concerned, I could give a damn who the hell I talk to, I’m not going to change my tune or kiss their ass just because they’ve been interviewed by me and I resent the inference.

    I will say regardless of the tenor of their writing, we all as people go through stuff. I take that into account when I come in contact with people in and out of the field. You just never know what’s going on in someone’s life and I will try not to judge people so much. It’s counterproductive to anything I hope to accomplish.,

    I’m still going to have hope for them. We all need someone to push us to change and I want to be that person for Jason. I’m a father and I’m a coach. It goes against anything I’ve ever done to marginalize someone and give up on them. I’ve seen it happen so many times.

    I’ve coached pros who weren’t pros when I got a hold of them. There’s nothing greater than seeing a kid turn the corner–as I’m sure you know. Of course I realize the difference between a kid and a grown ass man.

    I can’t stand how he writes presently, but I’m not giving up on Jason Whitlock and neither should you.

  161. Will B

    “It just seems to me that the common thread running through this….. well, thread… is that some people here want all black people to think and act the same way. ”

    Amazing how people who are supposedly grown and have attained full intellectual capacity can be so adolescent and limited in their thinking. The above is about as ridiculous, lacking in analysis and just plain stupid as it gets.

    MODI
    Thanks for the kind words and for further clarifying my position if it wasn’t quite so.

    Ms. Hill
    Want to re-iterate that I have gained some serious respect for you in the face of your efforts here to engage in the conversation and take the slings and arrows we have cast your way. Much props.

  162. T3
    “One other thing:

    I don’t much appreciate the negative comments made about Mr. Whitlock’s appearance. I’m not sure what agenda that serves or what benefit accrues to any of us. It seems mostly like a petty depletion of personal spirit power.”

    I feel you. I felt bad about callin’ him Scrapplin’ lips….for about a nano second.

    I got over it.

  163. “As far as my past dealings with Whitlock are concerned, I could give a damn who the hell I talk to, I’m not going to change my tune or kiss their ass just because they’ve been interviewed by me and I resent the inference.”

    mizzo, now let ME explain further. I don’t think the inference was received as it was intended. I wasn’t referring to any “kissing ass” or “changing tune” or nothing like that. If you review my statement, my reference was SOLELY in relation to “your wishful optimism” about Whitlock. I was suggesting it possible that your outlook for Whitlock’s future improvement be NATURALLY affected by seeing another more reasonable side of Whitlock at a time when he was more reasonable than he is today. I meant it in a SUBCONSCIOUS sense. Again, I was referring to a perfectly benign, natural, and human occurence. This is a far different statement than the one that seems to be interpreted. So I should apologize for being vague in my original statement. In any case, I probably should have addressed your statement only, without any further speculation.

  164. Back to Whitlock: I try not to ever judge a columnist on their worst day, but it must be taken into account that almost everyday is Whitlock’s worst day. It was “the Black KKK” back in February, and it’s the “Black KKK” after Sean Taylor’s death. Nothing has changed except his personal audacity to put his agenda over human decency.

    That is my way of saying how LITTLE faith that I have in Jason Whitlock’s personal redemption. Having said that, I hope that it happens — just not while he continues to write columns. The thing is that punishment and consequences must be part of any redemption process. Hell, I will now root for Don Imus to turn over a new leaf! (remains to be seen), and infuence his followers in a more positive direction. But at least Imus received SOME small punishment and a bit of self-reflection time. But until Whitlock, at minimum, finds the unemployment line instead of being rewarded for his nonsense then it is hard for me to conjure up a transformation on his part.

    Mizzo, as for you not giving up on Jason, I wish you the very best of luck and I admire your faith. I suspect that Anne Sullivan had an easier project with Helen Keller. If I thought that he was merely misquided then logic, reason, and mentorship might appeal to him, but since I see him as a straight-up hustler, it is a question of morality and ethics. The man needs more than a big brother, he needs Jesus and Allah to run a tag-team intervention on his ass. Still, good luck though!

  165. Sorry for the mix up bruh.

    Hey man, I gotta try. Just to see where it goes you know?

  166. Perhaps you could find inspiration in the fact that Anne Sullivan DID succeed…

  167. I agree with MODI. When a man demonstrates he knows the depth of the situation – and professes his desire for fortune and fame, what more is there to discuss.

    A person’s right to express an opinion should be respected, but every person’s opinion should not be respected. That’s the pinnacle of “Doh!!”

    Whitlock is a beneficiary (like Carl Rowan and so many others) of the security/miseducation dynamic operative within the US. Under this dynamic, Blacks lack maximum capacity to inflict violence – and so, the group withholds the use of violence as a tactic on matter for the collective good. Conversely, the state has never organized policing to eliminate crime in poor/Black communities – it was instead worked to set the physical boundaries for that crime. So, black criminals will use violence against law abiding blacks and without sanction – but will not use violence for the elevation of the group. It’s really simple.

    In other nations where oppressed groups retain some capacity to use force and have not been fully miseducated, people like Whitlock are routinely beaten and/or killed. This is nothing new because the game of espionage is as old as hording and scarcity by competing groups. Whitlock is engaged in hostile activities intended to elevate his compensation and visibility. It’s really simple.

    Were this Palestine or South Africa of the 1970′s, he’d already be pushing up daisies. There would be no question and no remorse. The impetus for the violence might be anger – it might not. It might even be group think – but it might not. It could simply have been the rational conclusion of a group to impose a certain, harsh sanction on a specified type of behavior: namely, only those who speak truth to power and are grounded within this community can cast aspersions about our conduct as an ultimate justification for our material condition.

    Whitlock is playing a dangerous game. KevDog is absolutely correct. So is Modi. Eddie Murphy once joked about the actions of “emboldened” whites in the movie Raw. His jokes were about a man who saw Rocky and felt he could do all that Sly Stallone in the movie. Of course, it didn’t work out that way – but when nationally recognized persons establish a discourse that not only ignores power relationships, but firmly places blame AND responsibility for all that ails the nation with its poorest, least educated groups, there is a problem.

    What Jason doesn’t really understand is that there is no shortage of courage to deal with him swiftly – the only hesitance is as it has been for years – the final arbiter of force in America doesn’t look like me or you or Whitlock…it looks like the men who ride his rump into the wee hours of the morning.

  168. T3, right there with you.

    Now as for your earlier calls to rid any criticism of pettiness… if I said that the definition of “black-on-black crime” is evertime Jason Whitlock masturbates, would that qualify as beneath me and beneath this discussion? Just asking?

    (…in actuality I read that line in another blog, but can’t remember where)

  169. MODI-
    ‘In no way, shape, or form do I believe that I know “black people” more than any black folk themselves. But I do believe that I know “white people” very well. And i can assure you as sure as the sun rising and setting that prominent black voice CAN CONTROL to some degree how white people think. kevdog used the word “emboldened”. That is exactly the right word. Whitlock emboldens latent white bigotry to rise to the surface.’

    Yep

  170. I should state affirmatively and for the record that I would rather see a return to senses than a descent to violence. With that said, I do believe that violence (or at least the certainty of superior force) solves things. We know that the decimated indigenous populations of this land are clear about the utility of violence – and we should be too – since their grounding places have been converted to strip malls and golf courses.

  171. Will

    You asked for the site’s solution to the Whitlock problem. It sounded a lot like white folks asking black people what’s the solution to the negro problem.

    My point was that it’s not this site’s job to solve the Whitlock problem and to suggest that we need to focus on that is a means to suppress our discussion of what he is doing. We don’t need to tell him what to do just because we’ve decided to talk about what he is doing.

    Besides, people have suggested many other ways he could write about the issues he discusses, if you’ve read the posts here you know that. Therefore, I believe you wrote what you wrote in an attempt to get us to stop talking about what we were talking about. Otherwise, what’s the point?

  172. so glad to find this site.. i’ve been reading now for a few weeks..

    the “whitening” column was the last straw for this white girl especially b/c i had to hear about it soooooo much from white conservative coworkers, relatives, neighbors and other people that just thought i would agree with their “finally! somebody telling the truth..” huh? whitlock has driven me nutso for years as somebody who is trying to make a difference in US and my community of kansas city.. and it is exasperating, infuriating when white frat boys (i don’t care how old, that is my description) are speaking casually of the evil dangers of hip hop and the “black KKK” .. i have never overheard them talk about race relations or music for that matter and now they are parroting whitlock’s racist bullsh*t .. that is just an example that i thought y’all might want to hear- your concerns are warranted from this perspective..

    i got to hang out with chuck d 2 yrs ago when he spoke at KU and talk to him about efforts to engage urban youth (yep, i mean all races) and desperately try to address our high murder rate.. when i say “we” and “our” i am speaking loosely of different individuals and organizations that often collaborate on similar goals… seeing/hearing mista chuck give a 3hr lecture and answer every question from audience was very inspiring ..confirming his importance as a leader in addition to all the music and the radio show and other works.. has whitlock ever attended one of these lectures? i might have read he was on a panel with chuck and would love to watch it..

    anyway- if jason reads this, he will dismiss me b/c i am white as he did dave zirin (big fan, dave! just finished “welcome to the terrordome”) when asked specifically to one of zirin’s columns.. in case some of you didn’t read that one, i am posting below..hoping that is okay with dave z!

    p.s. if you haven’t checked out P.O.S. on rhymesayers- he’s incredible.. and CORNEL WEST in 08! =)

    excerpt of zirin:
    But perhaps sensing the transparency of his argument–and the fact that we’ve heard this song from him before, Whitlock isn’t done. He also writes, “[The whitening of rosters] is already starting to happen. A little-publicized fact is that the Colts and the Patriots–the league’s model franchises–are two of the whitest teams in the NFL. 47 percent of Tony Dungy’s defending Super Bowl-champion roster is non-African-American. Bill Belichick’s Patriots are nearly as white, boasting a 23-man non-African-American roster, counting linebacker Tiaina “Junior” Seau and backup quarterback Matt Gutierrez.”

    There is no end to how irretrievably stupid this is. No demographic evidence exists that the NFL is becoming “whiter.” Yes, more players of Latino or South Asian, Pacific Islander, or even African heritage are playing the game. That speaks far more to the dominance of football in an increasingly multicultural United States. In other words, his example of Junior Seau and Matt Gutierrez don’t exactly point to the whitening of the league.

    Also, as the Battery Chucker Blog points out, even the Colts and Patriots are seeing their seasons rise and fall on the success of their African American players. “Outside of Manning, Brady and Bruschi, the major components of both teams are men like Moss, Harrisson, Freeney, Maroney, Samuel and Wayne. Yes the rosters for both teams are nearly half white, but the majority of the players carrying the load are black, some with corn rows, dreads, tattoo’s and big cars and it certainly isn’t have an effect on the teams success.”

    The Patriots example is a particular head-scratcher. This year the Pats took a chance on the ultimate poster-child of “hip hop athletes”, Randy Moss, and the results have been spectacular. Three years ago, they rode the back of another disgruntled, corn-rowed “head case” Corey Dillon, to a Super Bowl.

    But none of that is what makes Whitlock’s article wrong. The worst part about it is that it is racist: pure and simple. It’s racist because Whitlock is cheerfully willing to justify “whitening rosters” because of the actions of a few. Yes, there are pro athletes–in every sport of every color–who are narcissists that believe the world spins at their command. Stop the presses. This is the way it has always been in our hero-worshiping, sports obsessed culture. Ty Cobb beat a paraplegic fan for heckling. Ted Williams gave the finger more than once to the Boston faithful. Mickey Mantle went up to the plate hung over and would cuss out young starry-eyed reporters. In football, Whitlock’s good friend, quarterback Jeff George was a career head case. When a rookie named John Elway spurned the Baltimore Colts for the Denver Broncos, he was derided as selfish. The difference is that when these athletes acted in such a manner, no one railed about a “crisis of the white athlete” or the “buffoonery” of “white culture.” No one said, after Bret Favre admitted to a pain killer addiction, that maybe teams should take a chance on more reliable black quarterbacks. But Whitlock strains to provide ideological cover for every fan freaked out by a bigot’s definition of “hip hop” and any owner looking to jettison problem players. Instead of building bridges, Whitlock uses his platform to burn crosses.

    The worst part of the column is when he writes, “You know why Muhammad Ali is/was an icon? Because he rebelled against something meaningful and because he excelled in an individual sport. His rebellion didn’t interfere with winning. Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc. rebelled with dignity and purpose.”

    Don’t believe this self-serving sound bite for a second. It’s as convincing as George Bush giving Ali the Congressional Medal of Freedom and calling him a “man of peace.” Find a column where Whitlock has anything good to say about athletes who have taken a stand against war or the criminal justice system. He mocks athletes who have stood against the war in Iraq and for the young men in Jena. The young Ali, Brown, Russell, and Kareem would have regarded Whitlock like something beneath contempt.

    If Whitlock was around in the 1960s, he’d be more an ally of Carl Rowan, the prominent African American columnist who said upon Malcolm X’s death, in the New York Times, that Malcolm was “an ex-convict, ex-dope peddler who became a racial fanatic.” Whitlock is on a side that believes the number one problem facing black America is black America–and he’s using sports as a vehicle to advance his case. It’s a debate that falls apart in the face of every crumbling school, prison, and hospital in any-city USA. It’s also a position that, in the current climate, emboldens all the wrong people.

  173. [...] but he deserves props for a recent piece about the real reason for the steroid witch hunt. I had hope (besides the Kev Dog Jemele interview, this thread is one of the best of all time on TSF) for him [...]

  174. [...] sure most of you read Whitlock’s he ain’t learn nothing from that wack Sean Taylor death column hit piece on McNair. Can a [...]

  175. Great post,

    I completely agree with Killabeas: Don’t believe this self-serving sound bite for a second

    I just bookmarked this blog and will come back to check on more articles.

    Keep up the good work!

  176. [...] all Black writers knowledgeable? Hell no. I’ve criticized a few in my [...]

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