Interview With Jemele Hill: The Kev Dog Special

Do you really think you know me?

Jemele Hill, columnist for, has caught some flack around these parts. This is an age where some media entities represent Disney eared, Aaron McGruder caricatures adorned with extra teenie glasses whose sole aim is to pander to the disillusioned masses–themselves jackasses. You all know where I personally stand with Jemele. Similar to what we have here with the TSF creative, I wanted to engage you with provocative thoughts of visualizing where she stands in OUR collective hearts. There’s no one in journalism like her and she hears it from everyone. Could you imagine being in the center of a room with your eyes closed and wearing headphones? Opening your eyes, you are bombarded with screaming criticism from any and everyone. The faces are Black. The faces are White…Brown and so on and so forth. There are men. There are women and even youngsters.

You stand up with a sista burned fire ready to snap.. As you remove the headphones, the faces and voices fade to black like rescinding fog in a bizarro world. You wonder to yourself , “What the hell is going on?” Thinking aloud… “Is this my professional existence? Is this what I signed up for? Am I supposed to care what these strangers think? Why are they so passionate about the words I write? Do they scream their loved ones way, like they spew hatred and venom in my comment section every day?

Why do all these people want my writing to just go away?

I tell you what, this my destiny. I do this for the love. I’m here to stay no matter what they say….

Read Jemele’s archived work here.

It’s Friday. Jemele is coming off the set of ESPN’s First Take and on her way to the airport. She graciously takes time to give TSF some real rap.

I hope she answers some questions a few of you have about her writing philosophy. There are many music links below. Please check them all out because your soul will be enriched.


Michael Tillery: What’s going on? Were having a great conversation on the site discussing Barry Bonds and the sellout Marc Ecko. Was it the same around the set?

Jemele Hill: Believe it or not, it wasn’t about Barry specifically. The buzz was more Andy Reid. That’s what we talked about in production meetings pretty significantly. We were figuring out how to play it, especially with the “game of the century”, Indianapolis and New England. As compelling a story as Andy Reid is, we knew we couldn’t start off with that. You can’t go from that to “Who is gonna win the game?” That would be a little distasteful. So we talked about the Colts first and then went into Andy Reid.

I knew coming into today talking about Barry Bonds that me and Skip (Bayless) would agree on that. We thought Barry Bonds was completely in the right.

Michael Tillery: Where do you think most side on this issue? Barry or Marc Ecko?

Jemele Hill: As the steroid investigation lingers on, I think it works more in Barry’s favor. Over time, as more names come out…we see Rick Ankiel and Paul Byrd…I believe the perception of what he did is going to change.

As far as the asterisk is concerned, it’s already been settled in the minds of fans. Today on the show we were talking about it. We already received a ton of emails that Marc Ecko was in the right. Those are fans, that’s how they react to that kind of stuff. I don’t think people sit back and think of the historical implications of what they are saying. As I said on the air, you are gonna let a fashion designer decide how a museum–the one that records the history of a game considered part of America’s past time–present the ball that broke the all time home run record (756 breaking Hank Aaron’s long standing record)?

It’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of. Especially because this is just a publicity stunt for Marc Ecko. He had people voting on his own website to determine what should happen to this ball. A lot of Black people wear his clothes. If I were him, I would sit back and make a statement about that because I think it’s just absurd and it’s a disgrace that he’s trying us this as some kind of publicity stunt to generate this type of opinion against Barry Bonds. I’m no Barry Bonds fan, but let’s be rational here.

MT: I wrote on TSF that we definitely agree with Barry Bonds on this one. My opinion on Marc Ecko is that he started his company making money in the ‘hood…

JH: Right. Exactly.

MT: Almost exclusively in the ‘hood. I’m speculating obviously, but I feel that he made a judgment call because his line was leveling off. He then chose to go mainstream. His clothes now are geared to a different demography. To attach his clothing to that demography, he’s used all of this as a marketing campaign. It’s a shrewd business move, but call it what it is. He’s worried about himself, he doesn’t care about America. He doesn’t care about Barry Bonds. He definitely doesn’t care about what happens to the home run ball! I’m wearing Ecko glasses right now and like I said in the piece, if I wasn’t blind, I would smash these shits! (We laugh.)

JH: I don’t understand why folks can’t see the publicity stunt. Buying the ball was just an investment. He knows if he buys that ball he winds up all over ESPN–which is exactly what happened–and then he upped the ante by stating that he was going to let the fans decide what should happen to this ball. It’s like letting a cosmetologist decide what is going to happen in the library of Congress. It’s ridiculous. I have to agree with something Skip said in why are they accepting any properties that should be in the Hall of Fame that’s defamed? The whole point is to preserve it in it’s original status–or as close to it’s original status. You don’t accept a ball with an asterisk on it. Especially because MLB has been just as guilty as anyone in willingly letting steroids fly so that fans would return to the ball parks. They did it all with a wink wink and a smile and now that public opinion has shifted, they want to act sanctimonious and hypocritical. The more they continue this and keep it up, it’s gonna make me start liking Barry Bonds–which is scary enough in itself. It’s up to the voters, so he can’t decide his induction, but if i were him, I wouldn’t recognize that I was in there (HOF). I wouldn’t show up for anything. I would have nothing to do with MLB.

MT: This is obviously my opinion, but as these scenes continue to play out…

It’s kind of hard to put Barry in a black box, but the fact remains he is a Black athlete and I speculate a lot of Black athletes are going to throw their support behind him. Specifically when it comes to Hall of Fame voting, Hall of Fame criteria and Hall of Fame consideration. This is apropos and maybe the people behind the scenes at the HOF will finally get it.

JH: Well, we’ve seen a little bit of that. Gilbert Arenas went as far as saying that he would buy the ball from Ecko before he defamed it. He went off about it.

You are absolutely right. I could see this as a cause that people will rally around. I don’t know how many Black HOF voters there are. I’m sure there’s not a lot. I know Rob Parker is a voter and I can’t see him going for this at all.

MT: No of course not.

Did you watch the video?

JH: Yes, I’ve seen clips of it.

MT: Jim Gray, who caught a lot of flack for questioning Pete Rose about gambling allegations during pre-game (All Century team) all star festivities in 2000, seemed pretty objective in the interview. I didn’t think that would be the case. He almost came across as sympathetic. Do you think that was something genuine or a prerequisite to get Barry to speak?

JH: I don’t think you can say that. From that interview Jim Gray supplied a very intriguing and much talked about news nugget that Barry Bonds was not going to accept what the HOF said. One thing you can pick up from interviewing Barry Bonds is that the person conducting the one on one interview grasps an admiration for Barry during. If you compare how he attacks questions versus how Mark McGuire responded, or Rafael Palmeiro or Marion Jones or any of the people associate with taking PEDs, you see others tend to shy away. Barry seems to enjoy it. He likes being attacked–I think in some ways. It’s been building these last couple of seasons. He doesn’t care what people think. Ultimately, considering the amount of pressure he’s under having his name linked to an indictment, it’s admirable that Barry continues to stick his chin in there. I couldn’t tell you where Mark McGuire was or where Rafael Palmeiro was. Before Sammy Sosa reemerged, he was gone for a couple of years. Nobody could find this guy.

Barry realizes that he’s not going to gain anymore fans than he already has. There are people who always are going to hate him. Who does he have to impress? Why does he have to be loved to satisfy anyone? I have tremendous respect for him having that attitude.

MT: Andy Reid. I told you that I went out to cover the Philadelphia Eagles in Minneapolis with a group of great people called the Funweekenders.

Had a blast. Anyway, the group and the Eagles stayed at the same hotel. There was a huge contingent of Eagles fans waiting for the Eagles to show up. When they did, Andy was one of the first to get off the bus with this melancholy look of cold stone on his face.. You can tell he was going through something. I spoke with a couple members of the team, but Andy was off limits. He walked by all the press–no one even attempted to stop him. I was reporting, but I’m a Eagles fan at heart. I’ll never forget the look on his face and it saddened me. I agree with everything you were saying on the show (Friday). In Philly, it seems they want Andy Reid gone. Truth be told, Black fans and White fans–the ones I’ve come in contact with–in Philly are a little different in their responses to team issues. Blacks are a little more sympathetic to the coaches and quarterbacks mainly because of Donovan McNabb and Randall Cunningham before him. Whites seem to attack the team with more passion than Blacks. In this instance however, Blacks don’t care about Andy’s plight (on the field). All fans seem to understand what he’s going through and certainly feel for him, but this is one of the few times here where most people side with Andy being fired. They want Andy Reid gone. I’m’ not so sure I agree with that. I remember the Rick Kotite years and in no way shape or form want to go through that type of misery again.

*The Eagles were blown out 38-17 by the Cowboys Sunday night. The Eagles were listless as hell and seemed to give up after the first possession of the game on all levels. Terrell Owens returned to the city where he helped take to the Super Bowl and had 10 catches for 174 yards–his best game as a Cowboy. He flapped his wings spitefully to the Eagles fans. I was disgusted and turned the game off before it was final.

Andy this was bad loss with worse timing. Anyone but the Cowboys.

JH: I don’t think he will step step away. But, it’s troubling to me when you have a judge say your house is a drug emporium and the structure within your home is conducive to what happened with his kids. I’ve been around so many football coaches over the years and coaching is a drug to them. It’s a reason why Bear Bryant died right after he stopped coaching. It’s a reason why Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno can’t walk away. We have seen what impact that has on your family. There might not have been anything Tony Dungy could have done, but reading interviews since his son committed suicide was just tragic. He admitted that he felt a lot of guilt because the job consumes so much of who they are. It’s impossible to believe that doesn’t have some kind of effect. Reading what Andy Reid’s son said to the judge was really heartbreaking because while he did take responsibility for what he did–they are both adults and that should be pointed out–he said he started drinking and doing drugs as a teenager because no one was around. We all know that the streets have no problem raising your kids if you are not around.

It doesn’t matter if you are White or Black or rich or poor.

His sons had no reason to be attracted to the ‘hood life. He (Garrett) told the judge that everyone knew who he was. They all “respected” him and he “liked” being a drug dealer. He said so because it made him feel important. Somebody wanted him. so that means it was something he wasn’t getting at home. The Reids have three children in the house eighteen and younger (a total of five). This is a time where he needs to reclaim his family. Football will be there. If he decided to step away now, he could come back. He might not be able to do it in Philly obviously, but he can come back and coach. I would have to ask myself what was more important? The Eagles, or my kids? For me? The kids win hands down.

MT: I don’t remember who exactly said this, but I’m sure this happens a lot more than what’s reported.

JH: Look at the divorce rate among coaches. Look at Bill Belichick. Football has already cost him a wife. Cost Bill Parcells one too. It takes a toll if you are not around. You pour out so much emotion that theoretically should be shared with your family. I understand that it’s a difficult position.

Today if someone that I loved dearly asked me to step away from what I do at ESPN–a job I love–it would be tough for me. At the end of the day, the legacy remains what we contribute to one another as people. It’s not the games. It’s not the columns. It’s not the television. The legacy has to be the most important thing for Andy Reid.

MT: OK, I want to get into the Kev Dog segment (Jemele chuckles). You know we discuss you at length on the site. I wanted you to get your point across.

Do you specifically attack Black athletes?

JH: No, I don’t. My body of works suggests that I don’t. It’s funny everyone wants to criticize me with Michael Vick or Pac Man Jones, but nobody says anything when I wrote a piece criticizing Wimbledon for not properly honoring Althea Gibson (the 50th anniversary of her becoming the first Black woman to win the event).

No one said anything when I wrote about Don Imus and how I thought he should have been fired. I don’t want to brag about myself, but I was the one who contacted the National Association of Black Journalists and explained to them that this (Imus slinging slurs like he was 67 cent) was a situation we needed to get involved in.

No one said anything about the column I wrote about Terreal Bierra ,who is from New Orleans, and made the ultimate sacrifice–in my opinion. He left his position with the Seahawks to be with his family and it probably cost him his football career. He was a player that probably was on the fringe anyway and he left because his whole family was caught up in Hurricane Katrina–right off the practice field.

I know emotions run high with Michael Vick. On your site they feel like because he’s high profile I have a responsibility to write a certain way.

Do you want a contrived opinion to make you feel better or do you want the truth of how I really feel?

I can not ignore how I feel and worry about what people think–Black or White. If I did that, I would make a terrible columnist. You cannot write with that in mind. There are certainly times where I react emotionally as a Black person. There’s no doubt about it. I would never sit here and say I’m a columnist before I’m Black. I will always be Black.

I recognize that responsibility. I feel I carry that responsibility if I point out, not only the good we do and the times we’re slighted (and people act in a racist manner against us), but I also have a dual responsibility to point out where we can do better.

I can’t control who I work for. I have a feeling if I was working for XXL, that I’d probably get a lot of Amens. I have to get back to something Bill Cosby said–I know he’s become a controversial figure. White people are going to think the way some do about us regardless. It doesn’t matter if I wrote one hundred columns that said Black people are the greatest people on earth, Michael Vick never did anything wrong and Barry Bonds is a saint.

White people will think what they want to think regardless.

We can’t constantly operate in this box of let’s not say this in front of the White people. The time to be embarrassed was when the behavior was in question.

Don’t get embarrassed because we were put on blast. This keeps us from attacking the problems that hold us down.

MT: When I do these interviews I try to attach my thought process to that of the person I’m having discourse with. The irony in your previous statement is that Bill Cosby came to mind before you mentioned him. Let me ask you this. Who would you more align your personal philosophies with, Bill Cosby or Jason Whitlock?

JH: (Jemele laughs) Wow! What a good question. Some people consider them one in the same. I don’t think I’m as extreme as Jason can be sometimes.

I think it’s kind of silly to blame Hip Hop for everything.

It’s music. I realize it’s a culture as well. I look at far bigger issues like poverty, education, and absentee fathers. Those are dire problems.

I’m a moderate. I like to address issues individually. I always want to reserve the right to change my mind. I don’t want to be one of these people so stuck in how I feel that they (readers) can’t see another side of me.

Barry Bonds is a perfect example. I still think he did steroids, but I think some of the flack he’s dealing with is straight up racist and undeserved.

I think there’s room for those opinions to exist in the same place.

MT: Getting back to Jason Whitlock–who is running from interview requests with me by the way. It’s unfortunate he commands so much attention and has some of the bullshit opinions that he has. After each and every column he writes some of the comments are the most sickest and racist words you ever will read. We have our opinions of him on TSF. We call him this and that. Professional or unprofessional as it may seem, it’s our truth.

Is there room for this guy? Specifically among our race? He’s not adding to a positive discourse, he’s propagating disaster.

Ala Uncle Ruckus…

JH: It’s definitely room for his opinion. Let me say this about Jason. He’s an extraordinary talent. That gets lost sometimes because people react so emotionally to what he writes–which is definitely understandable.

From a pure columnist perspective, he may go down as one of the best ever.

Ralph Wiley was certainly the best Black columnist and one of the five best columnists of my lifetime period. Jason has made quite an impact. However, there are times where he sells himself short–in terms of arguments he makes. I do read some of his opinions and have to question the agenda behind them. I know he always writes he’s an agenda less writer, but no opinion is agenda less. We all are shaped by the environment in which we were raised and also the one we now live in.

I’ve been uncomfortable with some of the things he says. He exonerates racism.

Don Imus wasn’t someone Black people listen to or had any type of connection with while that may be true…

He still can’t call me a nappy headed ho.

Jason is polarizing, but he’s still an important voice. The good thing is because there’s me, there’s Jason, there’s Bill Rhoden…there are so many Black columnists than there ever has been. We have grown out of the time where all of us have to take a certain way. Early Black columnists–even though they might have thought that Black people bore a little more responsibility–had to feel a little difficulty to side with people who did not look like them. That had to be tremendous pressure. Now there are dozens (still not enough 🙂 ) of Black columnists. We don’t have to take the same opinion. There’s room for conservative Black thinking, liberal Black thinking and differing opinions of how problems in our community should be attacked. We should consider all of them.

I know people probably have opinions of how Jason is–I got to know him a little bit. He’s definitely someone who loves Black people despite the popular opinion.

He’s just in a mode where he thinks tough love should be the headline. Sometimes that’s appropriate, but sometimes it isn’t.

MT: Do you think Black columnists are more progressive than their White counterparts because of the diversity in opinions you just alluded to? I say this because we are put under so much scrutiny. Our thought process seems to be different. We write with a certain style that is incumbent of our race, yes, but is it more than that?

JH: In some ways yes. We live the experience of being the underdog. It’s a tremendous burden, but it’s also a tremendous gift. We live every day with scrutiny. You can not deny that. I don’t care if we are columnists, engineers or work in a pharmacy. There’s just a certain scrutiny that comes with being Black. We know that people will doubt us and our abilities. We know that when things go wrong, we won’t receive the normal punishment, we’ll receive one that’s harsher.

We exist in a world where our mistakes simply aren’t tolerated.

When you bring that to the table as a columnist, it allows you to be a little bit more sympathetic. It makes you want to look at the whole picture instead of just the one we get in snapshots and snippets. I find that most Black columnists–particularly when we report on Black athletes, Black figures or a situation in the Black community, or even the White community–tend to look at all the factors and see how they engage with one another.

I don’t feel like Black people exist in a world of absolutes, but I feel that the mainstream does.

I could be dead wrong, but that’s just the feel and the sense I get as a Black columnist.

MT: Do you think because you are Black and also a woman that you are pulled in many directions? Do you feel you are able to have your individual opinion exclusive of your editors?

JH: I would never work in any place where they tried to tell me what my opinion should be. There are times when I pitch something to my editors and they say, “What do you think about this?” That’s their job as editors. They are supposed to present a different side to make sure my column is as accurate as it possibly could be.

If they ever asked me to write an anti-Black Michael Vick column, I’m quitting that day.

That has never happened to me at ESPN or any of the other places.

You asked me about being pulled in different directions. Yes, I feel that. It’s hard for me not to keep in mind sort of the overall picture pertaining to my gender and my race. I’m sensitive to those issues because I live this.

As much as people may think otherwise, it’s hard for me to write a column doggin’ another brotha out. I’m more hurt by what Michael Vick, Pac Man Jones and Tank Johnson did than anything. They are in a rare position of influence.

No athletes raise our kids, but they do influence them.

We are looking at a lot of young Black athletes that just don’t get it. One thing I can appreciate about previous generations is they always felt the responsibility of community first. They conducted themselves in that way because they knew everyone was looking for them to mess up and validate whatever racist opinions they had about Black people.

We’ve made some strides concerning race, but Black athletes are still in that position because of what Hank Aaron and Jim Brown had to go through–period. They are the reason why these brothas can get one hundred million dollar contracts.

When I see Michael Jordan would not give money to his alma mater to build a multi-cultural center largely benefiting African American students, it pains me greatly. When I hear him say he gave it to the school of social work so everyone can use it, I don’t know what to make of that.

I just feel there is a disconnect there. I guess it’s to be expected because with a whole lot of success, people get further removed from the things that got them there.

I don’t care how high I climb at ESPN or anywhere else, I’m going to always be the young Black woman from Detroit who grew up on food stamps, was raised by a single mother, whose parents both battled drugs, learned a lot about life and made it to college on scholarship. I will not forget that part of me. I’m not going to run away from that.

MT: Shaquille O’Neal.

Honestly, I’ve been through a bad divorce. It took me a while to get over the anguish of not seeing my children every day. I got the biggest thrill coming home from work, cracking their bedroom door and seeing them sleep in their beds. Just little things parents take for granted. As they’ve gotten older, it’s something I’ve had to live with–that precious time missed instilling my values as a father. It was almost like a death.

I see this in Shaq right now. I don’t agree with everything he does. I’ve heard the stories, but I see a divorce cry in his soul–and at first glance. I can totally relate to what he’s going through.

He’s still a veteran super star whose life has been turned upside down–whether it’s of his undoing or not. Similar to Andy Reid–different situations obviously–should America be a little sympathetic? You can’t relate to a divorce–especially after a long term marriage–unless you’ve been in one.

JH: I certainly respect what he’s going through. Although, I must say reports and rumblings are that this is something built up over time. I don’t think it has anything with what we’re seeing. I think it’s age to be honest with you. I’m not going to go as far as Phil Jackson and say he’s the laziest player, but Shaq has always had a lackadaisical attitude to conditioning. Everybody knows about his weight fluctuation. I think we are seeing the effects of him just thinking he can be dominant when he wants to be. This season I think, is going to be a very trying season for the Heat. I do not expect them to make the playoffs. Shaq is the most influential player on that team. We’ve seen the last couple of seasons in words in his quotes. That’s how Shaq attacks the game. Being how improved the east is, if they think they can just turn it on with Orlando, Washington, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, New Jersey and Toronto, he’s very mistaken.

Judging by the first couple games of the season, it’s going to be very difficult–from a physical standpoint–to put that team on his back. We’re going to see now why Jerry Buss didn’t want to give him another one hundred million.

It was a good move for Miami obviously because they hadn’t won a championship up until then. From a expansion standpoint they were relatively a young organization, but the Lakers have how many championships in their history? They figured they will get there again. Jerry Buss was thinking about the back half of the contract–not the front half. If Shaq wanted a two year deal, then Jerry Buss probably would have agreed to it in a minute. He wanted another hundred million and four or five more years? It just wasn’t going to happen. It’s the same reason why Detroit let Ben Wallace go. Bill Davidson was thinking about when Ben Wallace was thirty-five, thirty-six and still paying him twenty million? Couldn’t do it.

MT: Do you think Kobe and Shaq were better off together?

JH: Ultimately, yes. What’s puzzling to me about the Shaq situation is Shaq made such a big deal about not wanting Kobe to be the first option. That was such a big thing about him not returning to L.A., but then goes to Miami and does the same thing with Dwayne Wade? He could have done the same thing in L.A.

It leads me to believe with Shaq it really was about the money instead of what he made it out to be.

MT: Sup with my boy Webber? Why isn’t he playing in the Lig right now?

JH: I think Chris will be one of those mid-season adds that comes out of nowhere. It will be some team that needs an extra body. It won’t be Dallas, because they just picked up his boy Juwan Howard. Maybe like a Cleveland or some team that thinks they just need a little piece to get them over the hump. I think it’s a two part answer. Teams that he has interest in, their interest is just not there and people are sort of wondering how much he has left. As you know, his knee problems are well documented. I think that has a lot to do with it. I really can see him being a late season pick up by somebody.

MT: I just thought it was very interesting in speaking with the majority of his teammates and his father this summer he’s not playing with the Pistons. Sheed, Chauncey, Rip and Tayshaun were very adamant he return to the team. I thought it was a lock.

JH: I understand why, but how much longer are you not going to play a cat like Jason Maxiell? He’s not getting the minutes that he needs to get. Webber was a great short term solution. If he was going to payoff, it should have been last year. The Pistons at some point, have to get a little younger and add some more depth. Webber, as good as a passer as he was in the half court, was a liability on defense. He hurt them at times. They seemed to really give up a lot on penetration not having Ben Wallace down low. It was a sacrifice they had to make.

MT: I guess it came to a head when you saw LeBron James go right down the lane on multiple possessions to snatch certain victory from the Pistons in the Conference Finals–whether Chris was in there or not.

JH: That was the game that let them know they had to go in a slightly different direction–particularly if they have any notions of getting back there.

MT: What are you thoughts on the NBA this year? Who do you have going to the NBA Finals and who do you think will win?

JH: I have San Antonio in a repeat. I have them going up against the Chicago Bulls. That’s a pre potential Kobe trade pick, but certainly if they get Kobe it makes the pick look even better. I really like Chicago. I like their energy. I think Tyrus Thomas is going to have a breakout year. I think Ben Wallace still has some more to give. If I’m John Paxson, I either lock Kobe up or shut it down completely. Even at this early point in the season, we are seeing the effects the trade rumors are having on the Bulls. The team is so young. Everyday someone else is mentioned. The only person who could feel safe is Luol Deng because he knows Kobe wants to play with him. I just like them as a young squad. I think they’ll grow up in a way they need to.

San Antonio really wants to cement themselves as one of the great teams of all-time.

The hot pick is Houston.

I can’t go from Tracy McGrady not making it out of the first round to all of the sudden making the NBA Finals. That’s just too big of a leap in my opinion. Although he had that forty seven against Utah, I still like the Jazz. There’s going to be two teams in the west that nobody is going to want to play, Utah and Denver. The Spurs are mentally the strongest team in the west. They can play all styles. They definitely are the best defensive team. I have to go with them again even though people seemingly hate seeing them play in the finals. I love watching them play.

MT: Why is Boston still considered an afterthought? I have them winning it all. They have three Hall of Fame players that don’t seem to be broken down physically.

JH: I think they are one of the three best teams in the east. They obviously will finish in the top three. If they do, they certainly have a chance of coming out of the east. You look at what happened with A.I. and Melo when that trade went down. It took them some time to learn to play with one another. By the time they did, it was too late. They were eliminated in the first round. It’s part of the reason why I can’t go with them again. It’s hard for me to put them higher that a fourth seed. If they fall in that four, five and six range, they will surely get eliminated.

Boston is the people’s champion. A lot of people are going to be rooting for them. A lot of people like Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. On a personal level, people appreciate the type of basketball they play and just the type of people they are. That will be kind of the fever from the people’s perspective. I guess I (don’t)believe the first time you trot out the new toys all of the sudden you are going to win. They’ve got to go through some growing pains. I’ve never been sold on Doc Rivers as a coach.

MT: Does New York make the playoffs this year?

JH: I’m going to say no, but not by much. They are another team I look at on paper and say they are a playoff team. They always seem to have a chemistry problem. You just think that’s a team that will implode at any minute and it’s going to take one bad stretch from them. Isiah Thomas’ troubles are still hovering. Even Stephon Marbury’s troubles are hovering a little bit.

Then you wonder if he and Isiah are going to have another battle royal if he decides that he’s not going to shoot in a certain game to prove to people just how important he thinks he is. You wonder how Zach Randolph is going to blend into New York with the media.

I just don’t think they have the chemistry or leadership to pull it off.

MT: MVP and Rookie of the Year?

JH: Kevin Garnett because Boston is going to get a lot of hype. He brings it every night. He’s playing on the east coast and is going to be on the national stage so much.

Rookie of the Year? You know Kevin Durant is going to run away with it. I watched the kid the other night. People think Seattle doesn’t have much left but I’ve been impressed. Chris Wilcox is playing well. That team is not just going to be Kevin Durant. Their defense is pretty good. We should expect that with P.J. Carlesimo because he’s a pretty decent coach. His stint assisting in San Antonio has really prepared him for this job. They look very inspired on the floor.

MT: What did you think about the Colts/Pats game yesterday?

JH: I’ll say it again: Randy Moss should be MVP. I know it’s unlikely because the quarterback gets the glory, and certainly how Brady powered them back was amazing. But Moss had a career-defining game, a Hall of Fame game. Now I certainly considered him a Hall of Famer before this and he’s had a lot of sick games, but he really ascended to a new level. As a 49ers fan, what I’m about to say is blasphemy, but I’d rather have Randy Moss than Jerry Rice. He’s that ill.

MT: Before we get into music because we didn’t get into it the last interview, I understand you did something with HBO?

JH: HBO’s Inside the NFL. NFL Films interviewed me some months back for a piece they were doing on the success of Black coaches. I wrote a column how Pittsburgh’s Mike Tomlin was a true measure of advancement for Black coaches. We always see Black coaches given bad teams, jobs you know they’ll be fired from in a couple seasons. But with Tomlin, you had a Black man put in charge of one of the most storied franchises in history, an organization that has been dedicated to winning for decades.

Anyway, I guess the NFL Films people really liked what I had to say, so they approached me some time after that and asked if they could do a piece on me for Inside the NFL. My first reaction: Uh, do you guys have the right number? I’ve been watching Inside the NFL since I was a pup, and I love NFL Films. I planned to return to Detroit about mid-season because I figured if the Lions were any good, they’d be worth writing about. Things worked out really great. I went to the Michigan State-Michigan game on Saturday — the outcome of that was not so great — and then I covered the Lions-Denver game the next day. They interviewed my father, some of my friends, and my mother. It was exhilarating and special. Never in two trillion years would I have expected something like to happen to me. I’m blessed.

MT: Congratulations. Very, very proud of you.

What are you listening to right now on the radio?

JH: C’mon Mike! This is 2007. You know I have an Ipod.

MT: Damn, did you just call me old? (We laugh)

JH: The new Jill Scott. I have about nineteen hundred songs in my Ipod, but I’ve been banging the Jill Scott for a couple of weeks now.

MT: I love Jill Scott. I love her all the way around. She’s one of the most beautiful people on this earth.

JH: She is. She is. It sounds ridiculous to say, but she is so underrated it’s not even funny. Whenever I want to go to that soulful quiet place, I listen to Jill Scott.

I seem to latch on to a great solo artist like once a decade. The first seventeen years of my life it was Teena Marie. The next five years were Mary J. Blige and the last five have been defined by Jill Scott. Those are my three ladies right there–no matter what.

MT: What are your favorite tracks from each artist? Can you narrow it down?

JH: Jill Scott… Show Me off her first album. Teena Marie is definitely Casanova Brown. Mary J., it’s My Life.

MT: Great choices. I also love Honey Molases from Jill.

Mary J.’s My Life got me through something. Trust me.

Any male artists you tend to vibe too?

JH: Yeah it seems like I have a running thing with the women I listen to, but the men I listen to are probably more eclectic. I love Seal, Sting and John Coltrane….Naima.

MT: Got to be Naima. I also love Coltrane and Miles collab, So What.

JH: I’m just like anyone else. You like music that really captures your heart. By that I don’t mean it has to make you feel love–like you’re in love with somebody. It’s what moves you.

MT: Were you influenced by your surroundings growing up or was music something you came to realize individually?

JH: Both. You know what? How can I forget my man Stevie Wonder? If I’m stranded on a desert island? Songs In the Key of Life is the album I’m listening to.

I was definitely influenced by how I was brought up. My mother was a terrific musical influence. She loved to play records–which some of my earliest memories of her. She was a huge Teena Marie fan. She totally turned me on to her. She also turned me on to Anita Baker. Anita would definitely make my top five of all time. I think the reason why I was drawn to these women is because they were strong women who overcame a lot.

Mary J. Blige. We all know what she had to overcome. In a way, that’s how I look at myself. I’m not perfect. I’ve suffered my bruises and bumps along the way, but I’m still here. All these women represent a certain strength to me. It’s so weird. I’m just now thinking about the psychology of what I listen to. With guys I listen to it’s something that mellows me out or takes me to a quieter place.

Listening to women artists is where I get strength from.

MT: I guess that may be gender associated, because that’s how I am but the opposite. To chill? Sade, Teena Marie , Phyllis Hyman, Jill Scott, Erykah Badu and Minnie Ripperton.

JH: You had to get Sade in there.

MT: You know it. She’s a given. How can you forget her?

JH: You can’t go wrong with Sade.

MT: You have a versatile taste in music. What genre would you most associate with?

JH: I’m more of a Soul person. I guess that deserves it’s own separate category. I hate to sound old fashioned, but the one thing I can’t stand about some of today’s music is it just lacks soul. Any dude can rub on my ass in a club. That ain’t nothing new. Those songs have their place because there’s certain times you want to have fun and kind of relax, but they just lack a certain depth in the heart. That’s what I take from music. I love James Brown too. There’s nothing like hearing the concert version of Man’s World, or listening to Marvin Gaye’s Til Tomorrow. That is so there. That is pain coming through the record. Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t always have to be about pain. In Mary J. Blige’s Be Happy, you really felt something when she sang that’s all I wanna be… We can all identify with that. Soul is a just great influence in my life. That’s how I try to approach my writing with soul. Whether you agree or disagree with what I write, I want you to feel how I really feel about something. The emotion kind of comes through the page–whether it be anger or something softer than that.

MT: One last question. What would you like to say personally to Jay Goober and Kev Dog?

JH: (Jemele really laughs 😉 ) I would tell them in the great words of Terrell Owens…”They just hate to love me!”

MT: Wow that’s whassup. Thank you so much Jemele.

JH: Mike it’s always just a pleasure man. I wish I could get interviewed by people like you every day. It would be so much easier.

MT: I heard that.


JH: Peace.

To read the first series of interviews with Ms. Hill, Click Here.


308 Responses to “Interview With Jemele Hill: The Kev Dog Special”

  1. thebrotherreport Says:

    Dyn-O-Mite interview! I’ve had the chance to watch her on occasion and I admire the way she holds her own. She hit on some of the things I go through as a writer. I sometimes struggle with the fact that I don’t have a journalism degree, never took any journalism courses and wonder how much further could I be.

    But I’ve learned that I’m here at this place in this time for a reason. Being here at TSF gives me the opportunity to touch my people in ways that I never could’ve at a major newspaper or some other media outlet without checking with Chez Whitey first.

    I don’t want something that will strip me of anything that my parents instilled in me and that my people before me died for.

    And for that Jemele deserves much credit.

    But she woulda lost me if she didn’t have Anita Baker on her list.

  2. I heard that brotha. Thanks Ron.

    She has a great taste in music. Glad I spoke with her because she reminded me of tracks I’d pretty much forgotten about like My Life by Mary J. Song takes me back to craaaazy times I can laugh about now.

    She’s definitely good peoples and has never turned down an interview request.

    WTF is up with the Eagles?!?!?!!

  3. thebrotherreport Says:

    I’m out of answers, nothing that happens next will shock me.

    The crazy thing is of the 8 games remaining 5 maybe 6 look winnable.

  4. Can you imagine what NE is going to do considering TO went wild by his damn self?

    It ain’t looking good for Andy.

  5. Mizzo,

    Man your interveiws are off the hook! I felt like you guys were in my living room and I was listening to your conversation. That’s what I’m talking about. Some 60 min. sh..

    Jemele seems really cool. I feel like I understand her more and where she is coming from. Sista to sista I’m proud of her too. Do your thing girl.


  6. Thanks Michelle.

  7. Jay Goober Says:

    Jemele Hill doesn’t like Barry Bonds, shocker, but will she ever write an article criticizing her media counter parts for their blatantly racist coverage of Bonds? Is there anybody that can deny that’s a fact?

    Here’s a quote from an article she wrote on O.J.

    I’ll be the first to admit Simpson is beyond pathetic. The “If I Did It” book is atrocious. I could easily call O.J. a scumbag, but that might insult the word.

    Somehow she forgets to mention the slimeballs that were going to pay OJ for the book, Rupert Murdoch and co. This is the kind of duck and run journalism that is all too common. The only person she can criticize is OJ, what about the media company that signed the contract? Oh don’t worry about them. GO after the easy target. In her defense the article was about the bogus charges.

    Then the snide comments about black men like this one in the same article.

    Whose wedding was O.J. attending? Tank Johnson’s?

    Really good joke is Tank Johnson’s trouble with the law a laughing matter? Is she Jim Rome now?
    Here she says Arod and Kobe are selfish and whiny. Wow how original minority athletes that are selfish and whiny? That wouldn’t be perpetuating a false stereotype.

    Both players are generally viewed as selfish, whiny divas

    Here she goes after Bonds again.

    Jones’ case shows us there is no perfect way to spot or catch a cheat, be it in federal court or the court of public opinion. All of America believes Barry Bonds cheated. But some people still believed in Jones. She was a golden girl. Bonds, by most accounts, is a golden jerk.

    Oh my god, I’m only on September 2007 of her archive, and i feel like black men are worthless. Here she goes after Isiah Thomas for saying he wouldn’t be as offended by a black man calling a black woman a bitch as a white man. Well I’m with Zique on this one as are most black men in America. Can you really be that out of touch?

    However I think Jemele’s worst crime, her worst of all time, is going after the brother I know as KevDog. KevDog is the type of honest black man that is going to lift our people up. We are going to do it one day at a time, one relationship at a time, one blog post at a time. We will educate, we will inspire, we will fight the good fight a la Cassius Clay.

    Jemele, works for the corporate media, which for many, many, many years has held our people down. They have been dishonest, lied, swayed, attacked and blamed anything and everything they can on our community. I have very little, make that no faith, that any person working for these outlets will in any way shape or form make a positive impact on our community.

    Name one journalist that represents? They couldn’t if they wanted to, shook, no such things as halfway…

  8. Jay Goober Says:

    Oh Yeah Whitlock top journalists of all time. You gotta be kidding me. I can think of many things Whitlock is great at, but none of them are positive.

    Actually as funny as this sounds to me today, seeing as how I grew up thinking otherwise. The realest mainstream black journalist out there today is Bryant Gumbel. Unbelievable I just said that, peace love and soul y’all. G-night and I’m out!

  9. I beat the drum for Ms. Hill hard when she first debuted on I disagreed with her in regards to Vick and PacMan, but I understood what she was saying. I was kinda surprised by how hard people went at her around here.

    I would like to think that getting to KNOW her, rather than just reading some columns and thinking that now you have someone figured out will make people think twice before getting after her next time they disagree with her.

  10. Mizo,

    Your welcome Miz. The interview was tight. A little long but the questions were on point. Very good reading!

  11. Where I don’t agree with all of Ms. Hill’s views, I applaud her passion. I really dug the questions about music. John Coltrane, now that’s good music. She and I could hang out with that. Good interview. To second Michelle it was good reading.

  12. Paul thanks.

    ****First let me alert everyone that if you include more than a couple of links in any post it will be sent to spam. Chill, send me an email and I’ll repost the comment asap****

    Jay Goober, I really appreciate your comment. I won’t lie. I had you and Kev Dog in mind when conducting the interview. I even called doc and let him know I was doing this.

    That’s not an indictment of either of you. Don’t get it twisted.

    Both of you have written some legendary comments. I think Miranda pointed this out. Unfortunately, when D split all was lost (the comments). I’m more upset this happened than anything. We all had some great conversations about not just the piece but any damn thing that came to mind.

    You both say in unique fashion what many others want and need to say. That’s the shit. The versatility in opinions is what makes this comment section the best in the blogosphere–or anywhere for that matter.

    Jay, I really appreciate you standing firm with head high and chin straight. That shows me you are a man’s man. I wish there were more of us in this muffed up society.

    Waaaaaay to many punks out there. Punk mu………!

    This is a very important interview on many levels.

    Like InkogNegro wrote–thanks for the comment my brotha–I also bang the drum for Jemele. At the NABJ Conference we had a couple of drinks waiting for a couple of her friends. I was supposed to get up with Kev, but had so much going through my head. I was moderating a panel and it slipped my mind–disheveled as it was.

    My bad Kev. I’m out there at least three times a year. We’ll get up.

    Anyway, I told her I was sick of writing sports. There’s been too much drama and I didn’t want this to seep into my already dramatic as hell life. She didn’t say much, but the look on her face spoke bass to me. You know the head down cause they are eating…and all of the sudden their eyes perk. It meant something and the fact I am still writing sports is a testament to that one sided conversation 😉

    She was probably like this dude’s crazy!

    Shit ain’t personal. I see the future my people. When and if stuff really goes down Jemele will be in the middle. I understand many won’t agree with her about Whitlock, but I understand she speaks from a journalist’s perspective. Dude says some foul BS, but he does his job well. There’s no denying that or the media world wouldn’t be discussing him all the time (Crazy but true. Why do we talk about this cat so much?).

    Like I say in the interview, dude runs from TSF, but he doesn’t have to give us an interview.

    He can just go to any other blog…giggle and chuckle over a bud and some white cheddar popcorn.

    Jay I want Jemele to read Kev Dog and your comments. She needs to see the other side of things. As long as we maintain real rap here, I’m down.

    Jemele is deep. She jokingly said a couple of times I didn’t ask her about music in the first series of interviews. I hope you all know her better through the real music she nods her head to. It’s jazzy sensual, intelligent, provocative and should give everyone a enlightening perspective into the depth of her being.

    You all must understand we are all progressing together. I want Jemele and other writers to realize their people have their back.

    If some of you don’t agree with me, holla. I am a writer, turned blogger. I’m new to this. I must say it’s exciting as hell making a transition I initially wasn’t comfortable with. I scrutinize every word I pen–something I didn’t necessarily do before and it showed. If I mess up, I want to hear it from any and all of you.

    I’m dead up when I say this.

    Constructive criticism becomes progressive and spiritual passion.

  13. Before I respond to what Jay said, I hope you all can appreciate what a talent Mike is. He gets to the gravy and biscuits of a person. Many props and much thanks.

    Jay, it was interesting that you chose those particular selections and framed them the way you did. You do realize that O.J. column was mainly about him being the victim of trumped-up charges? Yeah, I cracked a few funnies, but dude you can’t be that sensitive. Not to worry, I’ll add that to my list of do’s and donts…can’t crack a joke about a black athlete who has had multiple run-ins with the law.

    And do you dispute the fact that Kobe and A-Rod are viewed as selfish and whiny divas? Notice that phrase doesn’t begin with “I think…” Now, I believe A-Rod is whiny, but I hope you’d understand I was talking about what the perception of them was, not my own personal feelings. Nice of you to include one line of a column and not the several paragraphs in which I talk about Kobe’s desire to win vs. A-Rod. The piece was about how I’d rather have Kobe on my team than A-Rod because I find A-Rod disingenious and mentally weak.

    Remember, you’re talking to the revolutionary (or nut, depending on how you look at it) who believes that Kobe has a tighter game than MJ. You’re talking to the person who has said repeatedly that if MJ had to deal with the same onslaught of media coverage that Kobe did, MJ wouldn’t be the patron saint and Kobe wouldn’t be considered the devil.

    As for accusing me of duck and run journalism…do you really think Rupert Murdoch deserves more criticism than OJ himself for that stupid book? So it’s Rupert’s fault for giving OJ the money, not OJ’s fault for deciding to do the book? Can’t follow the logic on that one.

    And what about Bonds being a jerk isn’t a newsflash, either? So much about that cat people don’t know that I won’t say here. Same dude who humiliated wifey and threw her out of the house butt naked. Same dude who, when asked by a Negro leaguer for a autograph, gave him the Stanley Stepchild treatment (Mizzo, when you unveil that Justice Hill interview, please have him tell that story).

    Jay, my problem with thinkers such as yourself is that you seem to think that I should never criticize black athletes, never hold them personally accountable and, apparently, never make a joke about them. Prepare to be angry because, yes, I’m going to make jokes about Pacman, Tank Johnson, and dog fighting, if feasible and if it’s funny.

    But it’s unfair to paint me as some kind of mercenary on black folks. I’m the same person who wrote about Matt Leinart’s and Tom Brady’s baby-momma drama because if they were black, that conversation might go entirely differently. Same person who annihilated “Brat” Favre and still has Packer fans on my tail.

    As for KevDog, I’m not going after him. I guess I have to make this brutally clear: I WAS JOKING. Hey, KevDog has been relentless on me, so if you think that one good-natured ribbing was so wrong, so be it. Lighten up, dude.

  14. Jemele you didn’t comment on what Brotha Jay had to say about Unicron Whitlock.

  15. “Let me say this about Jason. He’s an extraordinary talent. “……………yeah, okay…….. after that I’m done.

    Stooping to the lowest levels just to shock and awe while being able to construct a sentence doesn’t mean you’re talented….it just means in this world of short attention spans he’s found a helluva hustle in sports journalism. Step 1: Demonize every young black pro athletes that makes a mistake Step 2: Make those mistakes the equivalent of serial killing, over and over and over again Step 3: blame hip-hop……

    That’s not hard to do….if you stick to that recipe its a guaranteed 5,000 comments…that doesn’t take talent…just takes a lack of principles and will to do anything to get noticed….Whitlock is the same as Karrine Steffens.

  16. Miranda couldn’t agree more. Actually awhile back I also said that Whitlock was no different then superhead.

  17. Yes Miranda.

    Let me make this perfectly clear. When I said Whitlock does his JOB well, I meant just that.

    Thanks again Jemele. I appreciate you coming on here.

  18. ms. hill likes coltrane! i am now a big fan of ms. hill.

  19. I gotta side with Jay Goober on the effects of corporate media…there is entirely too much “group think”….there appears to be absolutely NO other sides to a story. The only difference in the articles is the degree of demonization of whatever black athlete is the whipping boy of the moment. Maybe that’s why I love sites like this one, cosellout, sports on my mind, leave the man alone, etc. They don’t just take the simplistic route and go for the obvious. Of course, they don’t have to answer to the VP of “insert long azz title that translates to will this sell, will ratings fly, is it controversial enough, who gives a sh!t if its misleading or not thorough”.

    Oh well…in the words of Ryan Stewart…..”does anybody know what happened in Pat Kerney’s house?”

  20. Mizzo,
    Gotcha…..I’m waiting for Whitlock’s ‘Diary of a Sports Media Ho” to come out anyday now.

  21. Miranda you should write. You come up with some comedy.

    The group think thought of most media outlets is disgusting. The bottom line is king.

    The sites you mention operate outside that capitalistic realm because there fortunately, are those who have a dire need for progressive independent thought.

    Coming out of the seventies, the eighties was an opportune time to establish a successful sports medium.

    Society was in a fog and ESPN jumped to control the wind.

  22. I’m not going to write a post on this breaking news because it will take away from this interview but check out this link when you all get a chance.

    Notice the writers of the piece. Hmmm.

  23. HAHA…………Remember how the media loved Matt but hated bonds when they played together.

    Get ready for the news spin……………Matt innocent…Jose guilty.

  24. Reggie Bush is about to go down too.

  25. Thanks Mizzo…I have just grown weary of the lack of diversity in ideas within the mainstream sports media. I’m sorry, it doesn’t matter how many faces with skin like mine are pictured on the front pages of ESPN, SI, Foxsports, etc….what difference does it make if they’re pumping the same bullsh!t?
    I’m so sick of this “We are looking at a lot of young Black athletes that just don’t get it.” …ummm…get what exactly?? Hell, tell me, because I don’t know what it is they’re supposed to be getting either, maybe its something I’m supposed to get too.

  26. Hey folks.

    Just in from a long shift. I’ve read the interview and want a little time to digest things.

    Michelle. I assume you were just joking because I don’t think you are aware of what came before.

    JG. As always, thanks for the major props. The support is MUCH appreciated.

    I will say that my initial thoughts are that Ms. Hill still has difficulty with intellectual honesty on the issues raised here and I will definitely support my opinion when I write later today.

    In any case, I’m gonna get some shut eye.

  27. Sleep well brothaman. Interested in your opinion here…especially the jazz 😉

  28. KevDog,

    Of course I’m joking. I don’t agree with Jemele’s opinion of Whillock at all. I’m just guessing here that she knows a side of his writing that we don’t know hence her opinion of him. I also don’t share her opinion of MV but I get it . Our young brothers are going to held to a different standard like it or not so they have to keep their nose clean. I do share her opinons on other issues. Like the OJ situation which is really scary. It’s clear he’s being set up. On the other hand KevDog I totally get where you are coming from. I’M JOKING I GUESS MY HUMOR ISN’T AS GOOD AS MIRANDA’S!

  29. Matt Williams too? This steroids stuff IS GETTIN GETTIN IT’S GETTIN KINDA HECTIC!!

  30. Sportsdiva Says:

    Nice interview Mizzo.

    First and foremost, the Whitlock stuff threw me all off and I co-sign everything Miranda said. I don’t find dude talented AT ALL, popularity doesn’t equate to talent. (in music either, yall know LOL) Just like many folks in really high legal circles don’t find Clarence Thomas to be a brilliant legal mind or talented in his crucially important roll in the Supreme Court, in fact, they marvel at how he skyrocketed to the most important legal seat in the land. Well….it’s more of the same with Whitlock.

    Michelle, it’s all good, there is just some really good blog-comment history between Jemele and Kev Dog. And I can’t wait for his response to this piece. Wake up Kev Dog!!! 🙂

    Also we can’t underestimate what the Reagan-era FCC did as far as deregulation is concerned. The impact has been incredible. I know all of us can remember growing up with some sort of black news. How about BET didn’t even have a true, working news department during Katrina!?!? That is incredible! And incredibly sad and has a trickle down effect I don’t even think we realize. One report studied radio from 96-2003 and showed only a 5.9% rise in the number of stations while the number of owners fell 35%. Rupert’s getting richer yall!! LOL

    Anyway, I don’t like to stop people from eating and MSM is feeding Jemele, I understand that. (A lot of what I do intersects with media giants, fortunately I get to deal with Mainstream (see white) and Black corporations). I just wish she’d realize that preaching ‘personal responsibility’ to an entire group of people (like Cosby and Whitlock etc.) is offensive and racist in and of itself and preached in a context that doesn’t even touch the audience you’re trying to ‘help’ (loosely used) is suspect. (ie. Coz on Meet the Press and Open Letters on
    There is no WHOLE group that doesn’t get personal responsibility, there are individuals who commit acts that may or may not exhibit it, but I’m not buying the ‘tough love’ game anymore. It’s easy and shows no willingness to dig deeper and no willingness to speak truth to power.

    Those of us who disagree with a lot of Jemele’s stands aren’t debating ‘the tuck rule’ or anything like that….the ish we’re talking about is real and ridiculously important to us; like JG says, we’re fighting the good fight one blog at a time.

    One day, I read Dr. Watsons commentary (the recently retired rascist scientist dude) and Dr. Cosby’s commentary and I sent all of my friends an email telling them that apprently they didn’t exist. And apparently all of the athletes I’ve run across who never get into trouble, do good in the hood, aren’t into bling and have healthy egos don’t exist either.

    As always, I do appreciate her willingness to come here and maybe get some good out of it that she can infiltrate the WWL with.

  31. GrownAss man Says:

    Bottom line:

    A black writer like Jemele can’t win with some of you and until your mentality changes, any black writer that criticizes a black athlete will be a Tom, or a sell-out to the Man who’s running their respective publication.

    I love that someone brought up the O.J. article it epitomizes this whole victim and “what about whitey” mentality that is self-defeating.


    How friggin stupid would her article have looked if she wrote an article about O.J. and then added, “but let’s not forget how slimey the white man who paid him is.” REALLY? That is good journalism? Good writing?

    So everytime a reporter writes a story about some piece of gargbage that shoots up a black community, must they also include a paragraph explaining that the white man and his institutional racism are also to blame and that he is equally as violent in his foreign policy?

    Objectivity is probably the second most important quality in a sports journalist (no.1 is obviously the ability to write). When it comes to black folks, many of you lose your objectivity in an instant (unless of course, it about a black man criticising another black man). You can write back to me about how growing up black in America has made it impossible not to carry your “black baggage” with you when you read, but come on, let’s at least look at the men you’re defending.

    It’s not as if Jemele is bad mouthing Tony Dungy and Grant Hill, she’s called out Michael Vick, Pacman (a grown man who calls himself Pacman), and O.J.. If you can’t call those three for what they are, poor human beings (and do it without some long sad tale about why it’s not their fault they are shitty people), then you need to take your “black goggles” off and read closer.

    Like Jemele said, where were you when she wrote her columns about Althea Gibson and Imus? I always ask myself the same question when you rip Whitlock.

    WHAT ABOUT JASON’S columns concering Ty and Notre Dame? Or comparing the treatment of black athletes to Dennis Franchione? How could a so-called “racist” and “self-hating black man” write such things?

    You do realize that both Jason and Jemele get heat from white readers who feel they are playing the “race card’ too much? (maybe you lot don’t associate with whitey and that’s why you don’t know, but try reading the comments sections after a Whitlock or Jemele article, whitey don’t like it)

    Talk about intellectualy dishonest, how can a black journalist maintain their intellectual honesty when they get attacked by whitey for being too “black” and attacked by the black-thought police for not being “black enough?”

    Just because an athlete is black and from the “hip-hop” generation does not make them worth defending. Objectivity is your friend, in life and in writing (please spare me the “whitey took away my ability to be objective” bit).

  32. SportsDiva,

    Thanks. As always the knowledge you share with us is incredible. Mizzo’s interview was a good one since it has us all talking. TSF is the sh.. for that reason. Agree or disagree the conversation continues.

  33. Sportsdiva Says:

    Michael Vick is more than a convicted felon, Pacman is not one and I’d pose that you don’t really know what kind of people either of them are.

    “Just because an athlete is black and from the “hip-hop” generation does not make them worth defending.” Doesn’t make them worth attacking either.

    Doesn’t the person making the money off of that dispicable O.J. book deserve the same amount of scorn? How would that be a stupid part of the story, I’d find it an absolutely compelling dynamic to the story.

  34. GrownAss man Says:


    I had a look at yesterday’s post, and one of the bloggers wrote about how he was going to give it to Notre Dame about Ty and Weis. REALLY DUDE!? You know who was THE FIRST PERSON to call out Notre Dame,

    Ohhh, he’s a double agent. I bet he just wrote that 2.5 YEARS AGO so he could insulate himself from criticism. Of course, most of the white racists I know also think Ty Willingham was hard done and they also wrote articles condeming his firing.

  35. GrandNubian Says:

    Just like my homegirl SportsDiva, I gotta co-sign w/ Miranda on this one.


  36. I’ll try my hand at comedy again.

    KevDog WAKE UP!

  37. GrownAss man Says:


    Word? You think that an article about O.J. and the surrounding mess should include an attack on the guy who owns the corporation that offered him a book deal? You don’t see how that’s COMPLETELY TANGENTIAL at best?

    How bout an article on Andy Reid’s sons that made sure to note that “a black man sold them the drugs” and then went on to state “but the white man created the black poverty that breed the black drug dealer” AND then continued “but the failure of the Afghanistan government to curb the poppy seed trade is the real culprit.” How many digressions do you need?

    It’s poor-ass writing to call out every white person to “equal the punishment” when you are calling out a black person. YOU KNOW WHY? Because in every bad thing a black person does, you can point to the part whitey had in it. However, we then go from being reporters and journalists to just the white oppression police. Of course, white oppression is part of the story, but DAMN is it the only part of the story? Must it be mentioned EVERY TIME a black man gets called out for his indiscretions?
    If a brother shoots 5 white people on the New York subway, can a black reporter note this without having to mention that white have also killed millions of blacks, or that the manufacturer of the gun is white?

  38. Sportsdiva Says:

    “Of course, most of the white racists I know also think Ty Willingham was hard done and they also wrote articles condeming his firing.” Which makes what Whitlock did about as original as telling folks the sky was blue.

    I’m still waiting for you to refer to Reid’s sons (who were white, selling drugs to a lot of blacks ironically enough) poor human beings and shitty people….

  39. Oh my bad…..apparently not throwing a virtual ticker-tape parade for Ms. Hill’s commentary on Althea Gibson was a faux-pas on all our parts. The horror. Oh….another unforgiveable sin…we didn’t sing kudos that she hammered Don Imus for calling young African-american college students “nappy headed hos”……just think…she really stepped out of her comfort zone to write such a ground-breaking, thought-provoking piece. I mean, who would have thunk it?….a black female sportswriter penning such radical thought such as why one of the greatest black female tennis players of all time had yet to be honored and why some crusty old white dude insulted the predominately black Rutgers women’s b-ball team. Damn……let me drop everything and thank Ms. Hill for traveling that lonely road less traveled of radicalism and daring to opine on these divisive topics. Surely she pondered how these two topics would affect her career path, and said “NO!! I don’t care!! I SHALL write about this, even though millions…no thousands….no hundreds….no tens….ummm”….

    Gimme a break…..can there be a safer subject matter than Althea Gibson and why it took Wimbledon so long to do the right thing?? My God…..and the fact that a black woman in sports media with a voice called out Don Imus…..are you freaking kidding me? That sh!t had better been a given. No….I am not THANKING any damn body for “gimmes”.

  40. Sportsdiva Says:

    Whites don’t call out whites, they don’t have to. The problem is we shouldn’t be doing any ‘calling out’ either, we should be writing objectively as you asserted GAM.

  41. GrownAss man,

    Now I have to chime in here. First let me say I appreciate what Jemele brings to the journalism world. The problem we all have with the MV situation is the punishment will not fit the crime. We as black people should all have a problem with that. The media over kill has been wrong again, we as black people should all have a problem with that. I understand Jemele’s view that this is a white world and black athletes need to try to do the right thing because they will be held to a different standard. This is helpful and a way of thinking that has been passed down from our grandfathers. It’s the only way we are going to keep our young brothers out of jail. At the same time standing and saying the MV’S treatment has been media injustice is also correct. He’s being railroaded. Should he be punished yes. But loosing everything when no man including repeat animal abusers have not is a crime in it self.

    KevDog WAKE THE UP!

  42. GrownAss man Says:


    Apparently you’re much more adept at detecting racims in other blacks than you are in detecting sarcasm in a post. NO WHITE RACISTS I KNOW THINK TY WAS HARD DONE! DUH! And maybe you want to pass the lack of originality on to the writers you so often praise, since they thought it was original yesterday.

    Also, SURE Andy Ried is a piece of shit. HAPPY!? Can we ever say a black man is bad without naming a bad black person in the same sentence?

    If the topic of my post was defending shitty black people, does it mean I have to balance it out every time by naming shitty white people?

    So Bill Simmons must make insult black GM’s every time he calls out Kevin McHale or Danny Ainge for being pathetic GM’s?

    Where does it end for you? Here are some more for you love

    Barry Bonds took steriods, BUT so did Mark McGwire
    O.J. got off, BUT so did Robert Blake
    Ay Bay Bay is a horrible minstrel show of a song, BUT Britney spears is UGLY

    Star Jones is annoying, BUT Rosie O’Donnel is fatter and more annoying

    Foxy Brown is an embarassing mess, BUT don’t forget Britney


    Whew, that was f-ing tiring huh?

  43. GrownAss man Says:

    above should say “can we ever say a black man is bad without having to name a bad white person in the same sentence?”


  44. Sportsdiva Says:

    Come on now, don’t be too hard on me for not detecting the sarcasm. You know how easy it is to lose tone in the written form. That being said, considering your other posts, I wasn’t expecting sarcasm from you. LOL just being real.

    You know what I would like, everytime there was a Vick story there would be an equally adept story on Benoit/Steroid and Doneghy/Gambling.

    I would like everyone who rides Zeke’s ass as a GM would refer to MODI’s excellent ‘myth debunkefication’ work on COSELLOUT.

    I would like every time you’re ready to stomp on black folks, you stop, think about the aforementioned examples (which actually proves my point) and get a little perspective.

    Do you not view this as the Vick-Bonds Summer of Scandal ’07?? I have heard Vick referred to as Hitler and am fully aware that Barry received many threats against his life. Now do you think the most important scandals in sports were those 2 or Donagy-NBA Refs-Gambling and Chris Benoit-WWE(baseball too)-Roids?

    I’m curious…

  45. GrownAss man Says:

    Ahh, so as Michelle and Miranda have pointed out, you are only “black enough” if you take “controversial” stands and call out “less obvious” racism. You know, it might just be that Jemele wants a journalism career that entails more than “controversial black topics.” Of course maybe you don’t believe she’s entitled to write that way.

    Of course, she might possess a perception of the word that is distinct from yours. Given where Ms. Hill has come from, I don’t think that makes her any less “authentic.”

  46. Gone are the days when we as black people (then slaves) have to stand by and watch one of our brothers or sisters being whipped by that master until the flesh sloughs off his or her back and not say anything. In todays world, that beating may be physical or mental, either way we aren’t going to stand for it. When MV’S teammate, who is white, KILLED HIS GIRLFRIENDS PUPPY WITH A HAMMER, WHERE WAS ALL THE OUTRAGE BY THE MEDIA AND THE WHITE FANS? IS THAT NOT ANIMAL CRUELTY GrownAss man? No one is saying it’s tit for tat but if 2 people do similar things and the black man is slammed for it and no one says anything about the white man, WE ARE GOING TO BE PISSED! Oh and you brought Blake getting off. Where is the civil law suit victory? Where are all the media people screaming for his head? Where are all the white people screaming for justice and crying in the streets at the not guilty verdict. With all due respect to the dead. Nichole Simpson was not a sympathetic person. She had slept with OJ’S friend, Giving guys h… in the living room with his kids sleep upstairs, on drugs, living off his money so she hadn’t worked since she was 17, and a home wrecker? But of course she wrecked a black womans home so I guess white people don’t care about that. Now I’m not saying she deserved to be killed, I’m speaking to the level of overkill media and support she received by the public. When not too far back a black man was beat almost to death by those paid by our tax dollars to protect and serve and got off. While this was on tape mind you. If we don’t protect other minorities, it’s clear the white man won’t.

  47. Great points as always sistas Sportsdiva and Miranda. What is up with this dude grown man.

    Please ignore this dude, he adds nothing to the conversation.

    Only a matter of time before my boy Kevdog comes on here to NUKE
    Jemele and Grown Man.

    Only a matter of time.

  48. Michelle,
    It wasn’t media injustice…it was a straight up media lynching. Michael Vick was stripped, led out to the middle of town square, had the noose put around his neck and strung up like a Christmas pig…..and I’m supposed to believe its because he is psychotic, a wild beast terrorizing Miss Lilly and Mr. Charlie and our good Christian sensibilities……….whateva….and the network leading the charge…(along with Atlanta’s tabloid the AJC) is ESPN…or should I say BSPN? How many questions were seriously left unanswered by that Outside the Lines hatchet job?? Seriuosly….is that the best we have in terms of investigative reporting?? When the local prosecutor questioned the feds involvement…did anyone from the press offer more than a “He’s just a local-yokel!! He don’t know nothing!!”…..Anyone?? Why didn’t Bob Ley ask Wayne Goodwin of the humane society why they were asking for donations to care for dogs that were never under their guardianship? PETA and the HSUS have been ripping people off since June with that crap. Why was Bryant Gumble the ONLY person to actually speak to dogfighters ON RECORD, and show that nope…..its not a “hip hop” thing. Why??

    I am not going to give a pass to Jemele or anyone else that simply took the easy, painless, wimp route and just paint Mike Vick as another thug on the 6 c’clock news. Wanna talk about thuggery? Look at ESPN and ESPN2 on Sunday mornings…now there’s some sheer thuggdom.

  49. Miranda,

    Big Ups!

  50. GrownAss man Says:

    Well then, there you have it. My mistake. Jemele Hill’s job is not that of sportswriter, her job is that of black equalizer (call out whitey to equalize when he calls out our “black heroes”) and of black injustice reporter; or generally, as you stated above “protector of minorities.”

    That’s a hell of a lot to do. I like the idea of Jemele being able to possess the same freedom of thought and ease in her job as Rick Reilly or Bill Simmons, not that of her having to make up for 400 years of instutional racism in every column. I think it’s hard enough just to be a good sports writer. But if you want to saddle a sister with that responsibility, that’s your prerogative.

    I am not sure how more columns on a fake athlete who was on roids and a currupt official will help black folks, but I’ll take your word on it. I suppose reminding ourselves that whitey is bad and making sure he knows it makes us feel better. Though I find it odd that we judge racial inequity by how the WORST OF US are treated. I’m all for equality, but the media’s treatment of a man like Pacman Jones has absolutely 0% to do with how I feel as a black man in the U.S.. Barak Obama sure, but then again, he’s educated, conducts himself with dignity, and is a familly man. Maybe I just identify with the brother more. Perhaps a few more trips to Magic City will bring me around.

    Also, please link me to the article about MV’s teammate, I am serious, I am not challenging you as much as I’d like to know myself.

  51. Michelle,
    Jonathan Babineaux is black (he killed the puppy with a hammer)….but the difference in Babineaux and Vick is really simple…Vick was the popular QB that had braids and tattoos and didn’t wear a suit to his press conferences. Vick was the one that prompted 30,000 people – a majority of whom are black, to become season ticket holders and make tailgating around the Georgia Dome a weeekly family reunion. Vick was the one that made the Atlanta Falcons relevant…he was College Park, Decatur, Lithonia, East Point, West End and Jonesboro….and therein lies the problem.

    I’m always tickled at the insinuations behind comments such as “its not like she’s badmouthing Tony Dungy or Grant Hill” (from grownazzman)…LOL!! The “good knee-grows”. Its funny, but its also sad. You see….the most troubling part of comments like that, and I’ve seen this type of stuff from Jemele, is that it buys right into the raw racism. That’s some straight up self-hate.

  52. GrownAss man Says:

    Yeah, michelle and miranda, ignore someone with a different perspective. That brings NOTHING to the conversation. Apparently, intellectual masturbation is preferred around here. Not objectivity or debate. God forbid you disagree with what the revolutionaries here are discussion. The world will definitely change for the better when you only engage those who agree with your. Let’s give each other hand-jobs and tell each other how right we are ….ooooooooh yeah

  53. My bad Miranda, Ive been calling him white for a long time now. Thanks for the correction. I still get your point.

    GrownAss man,

    What the hell are you talking about? Are you reading something different then what I am typing. The punishment must fit the crime BROTHA?

  54. Sportsdiva Says:

    “I am not sure how more columns on a fake athlete who was on roids and a currupt official will help black folks, but I’ll take your word on it. I suppose reminding ourselves that whitey is bad and making sure he knows it makes us feel better. ”

    Not how much it will help us, how much a more real perspective is needed.
    Do you not see a problem with the media vilifying 2 black athletes ad nauseum and relegating those 2 IMPORTANT stories and all of their wider implications to back pages then eventually disappearing?

  55. GrownAss man Says:

    Miranda, thanks, but can I get a link? Seriously, it’s the internet, thus I can’t really go on your word. I suppose I should just google it myself. But nonetheless……

    Also, why is it that when a black man conducts himself with normal decency he’s a “good knee-grow?” That’s bullshit, do you think white people like Jermey Shockey or do they like Peyton Manning? It’s just a matter of being a decent intelligent person. Please tell me LOLOLOLO what makes Grant Hill or Tony Dungy house ****s to you AND what makes Pacman and Vick more revolutionary to you?

    Braids and tatoos do not make a strong black man, nor does pissing off whitey. The fact that you embrace someone just because mainstream white america doesn’t like them is ridiculous. My enemy’s enemy is not my friend, even if he looks like me.

    Sorry, but a man like Grant Hill has done a hell of a lot more for black folks in this country than Michael Vick or any of the other misguided young men you see a “real black men.”

    If you ever have a son, ask yourself, will you hope he grows up like the man who went to one of America’s best Universities, has no criminal record, helps the community, and is a successful athlete, or would you wish he was one of the vick boys, who will give women herpes, party with 15 year old white girls, and smoke weed all the time.

    Maybe we have different values, but I’d guess you’d rather you raised a boy like Grant Hill…

  56. “Though I find it odd that we judge racial inequity by how the WORST OF US are treated.”

    “The Worst of Us”… subjective. Your “worst of us” might be a kid slinging rock on Metropolitan Parkway in Atlanta….my “worst of us” would be Bishop Eddie Long.

  57. Sportsdiva Says:

    “Sorry, but a man like Grant Hill has done a hell of a lot more for black folks in this country than Michael Vick or any of the other misguided young men you see a “real black men.”

    How do you know this? Is your perception and assumtions based on the same mainstream media who we are criticizing?

  58. Grownass man,
    “what makes Grant Hill or Tony Dungy house ****s to you AND what makes Pacman and Vick more revolutionary to you?”

    That’s YOUR sub-conscious talking…dont’ pen those words on me.

  59. GrownAss man Says:

    and explain to me why it’s self hate to dimiss someone who’s uneducated and acts in a way that disgusts me. I feel the same way about Bill Romanowski as I feel about Michael Vick.

    If I prefer Peyton manning to Bill Romanowski, how is that different from not giving a shit about Pacman Jones? Sure, no one’s prosecuting Bill, but I don’t conduct myself in the way Pacman does, thus, they’re both equally irrelevant to me. No one in my family or circle of friends does any of the things he’s accused of. When Kenneth Chennault get’s railroaded by the white media, then I’ll be offended.

  60. Sportsdiva,
    Apparently unless ESPN reported the charity work or donations, or any good deed, it doesn’t actually exist.

  61. GrownAss man,

    What planet have you been living on? Black people don’t see Tony D as the good kneegro white people do. The same reason why Jackie Robinson was chosen to integrate the majors instead of Josh Gibson. Duh. We love Tony D. Even though the white media doesn’t give him the credit he deserves. This site is the alternative to the MSM. Try reading The Starting Five is at the top of the page. Click on it bro! Wait a minute.

    Will the real DavidMac please stand up?

  62. GrownAss man Says:

    You’re right, the “worst of us” is subjective, but I’d venture to say that they’re at least a long way from the best of us.

    But as for Grant:

    Please do a little research on the Grant and Tamia Hill Foundation. You’ll be impressed. And you know what, I knew about it without whitey telling me.

  63. GrownAss man,

    So do we. Try reading some old posts Grant Hill gets much love from TSF family. Tell us something we don’t aleady know!

  64. GrownAss man Says:


    You speak for how all black people see Tony Dungy? Funny, my family doesn’t see him as a “good knee-grow” at all. We happen to disagree with what he’s said about gays, but we respect the manner that he carries himself and are proud of his accomplishments.

    What planet have YOU been living on? Are black people a monolith that supports and reviles the same people? Damn, I thought being black in America was hard already, now I have to subscribe to Michelle’s idea of what’s black.

  65. O.K. I am way busy…..but this is getting heated. So Grown man…..why is chad johnson, Maurbary and TO treated bad by the media. Neither has a criminal record!!!

    Why is Mcnabb constantly been attacked by the media for years. Why did fat c@@n @ss whitlock call Vince Young a thug when he was coming out of texas.

    Why was his scores leaked by the media.

    Why was Ralph sampson going to court for child support payments news on ESPN……..but Urlachers child support case in which the woman took him to court never mentioned.

    Why was A-rods cheating talked about on ESPN…………yet Urlacher cheated on his wife with a stripper and got her pregnant never mentioned on ESPN.

    Why is Lebrons children born out of wedlock always mentioned and criticized by the media yet you never hear the same about Brady’s and leinart’s kids.

    Last why is the white media already hating on OJ Mayo.

  66. GrownAss man,


  67. But apparently you don’t know about any of the good things that Pacman or Vick have done…….because whitey DIDN’T tell you. You do realize that charity and goodness is not just found in those who speak the Queen’s English and project some “presentable” image that you approve of. Funny, but…goodness can be found in the less articulate too…it can be found in those who prefer a hoodie to a Brooks Brothers suit. Likewise, mistakes and missteps aren’t limited to those from the hoods and the ‘jets.

  68. Sportsdiva Says:

    “Sure, no one’s prosecuting Bill” And that doesn’t give you pause at all??

    Grants charitable works are well documented, Mike’s aren’t. Did you know he had a foundation, well, you can still see the link, but the account has been suspended as did all of his other non-profit and for-profit ventures after his media lynching. He donated to his alma mater after the tragedy there, he rebuilt his mother’s church, he held youth camps in the city, visited kids in the hospital, had golf tourney’s, donated his flipping-the-bird fine to a firefighters family etc, etc.

    Well, Kenneth is cool for now, unless you stop using your Amex LOL, but ‘ehem there are some on the hot seat and did you see what happened to Colin Powell?? I’m sure we have different takes on that but don’t think ‘black faces in imperial places’ aren’t subject to B.S. too because they are and we’ll defend them just like the ones who wear braids and sneakers.

  69. GrownAss man Says:

    Ok, this might be a stretch, but maybe we should look at the behavior of those you just mentioned. Marbury is notorious for being selfish and has won NOTHING. TO, well, if you want to support TO who threw a good black man under the bus, then by all means. Speaking of, I actually agree with the McNabb statement, he’s be unfairly treated since the get-go. Of course, I never said that I don’t see racism in sports media, I just reserve my support to those who deserve it. (Funny, I think Donovan used to have braids as well).

    Neither Brian Ulacher nor A-Rod were the first to cheat on their wives, nor are they the first black or white athletes to be reported for doing so.

    I actually have heard more about Tom Brady’s kid than about LeBron’s for the record.

    But I truly believe that a lot has to do with the person. Tom Brady is in Michael Jordan territory and Michael could do no wrong to the mainstream (white) media. You don’t think EVERYONE in NBA circles knew MJ was stepping out on Juanita? MJ was a notorious womanizer, but he got a pass.

    There’s certain behavior that’s attributed to the individuals you mentioned (Cinco Ocho, TO, Starbury) which makes them undesireable. If you want to lend your support to a black man, how bout marvin lewis, who’s being undermined by Chad and his selfishness. Want more proof that I am not oblivious to the forces working against black athletes? Marvin Lewis had to sit on his ass while frauds like Norv Turner and Dennis Erickson got recycled in the NFL.

    Again, I didn’t start posting to state that there’s no racism in sports media. PLEASE!!! I just chose to use people like Ty Willingham and Donovan McNabb to make my points. THERE’S A DIFFERENCE.

    Imploring Jemele to defend MV or Pacman strikes me a stretch, since neither has conducted themselves in a manner that deserves her support.

  70. Sportsdiva Says:

    Did anybody see that article about Marbury and Sarah Jessica Parker (of Sex in the City Fame)? Well, basically she said she was really inspired to make her new line of clothes affordable to families and hard-working folks by none other than….Stephan Marbury….she said when she saw the story on what he was doing with Steve & Barry’s and his sneaker line that she burst into tears. Good stuff SJP. Now if we could get a round table with Steph, Phil Knight, LeBron, a couple working moms…that would be kinda cool.

  71. Lets not leave Chris Webber out of this conversation. His charity is off the charts but the white media paints him as a monster.

    Hands on charity in the inner city not that tax write off send a check by mail sh..

  72. Sportsdiva Says:

    “But I truly believe that a lot has to do with the person. ”

    GAM truly does believe this yall and therefore I’m done. It’s not that I don’t welcome a good debate, it’s just that, there isn’t one here. Damn. Sad.

  73. GrownAss man Says:

    I take issue with the Colin Powell statement. Colin Powell’s association with the Republican party essentially divorced him from his blackness in the eyes of many. You say, “we’ll defend them too” I don’t think there’s been 1/8 the indignation about how Colin was dealt with than about how Michael Vick’s been dealt with.

    But I suppose that’s another arguement. My point, which seems to have been lost a long time ago is that Jemele’s blackness does not require her to feel one way or another about Michael Vick or Pacman Jones any more than Bill Simmons should feel connected to Jeremy Shockey. Of course, Jeremy’s never been arrested, but I don’t need a rap sheet to know I don’t care for him.

    I know you feel differently, you think that as a black sportwriter she should defend the disproportionate treatment of Michael Vick, but isn’t it possible that she’s a strong intelligent black women who is of sound mind and soul and simply doesn’t feel Vick deserves her support?

  74. I will say this Jemele did make a good point about MJ. Oh and by the way GrownAss Man, the white media gives him a pass. WHY? Because he keeps his mouth shut, does what they say and makes them very wealthy. Sound familar?

  75. Origin,

    Barry Bonds took steroids (allegedly) out of jealousy, but Rick Ankiel, Paul Byrd, and now Matt Williams took HGH out of neccessity.

    Chris Henry and Adam Jones are ” grown-ass men”, but Garrett and Britt Reid are “kids”.

    Kwame Brown is a bust, Darko Milicic hasn’t turned the corner yet.

  76. Michelle,
    Its a real shame, but there are a lot of people in our community that believe they know the criteria for “good blacks” versus “bad blacks” and they, and they alone, make this determination. They will try and deceive you by bringing up the known good causes of the “good blacks”…but don’t be fooled..its not about what the “good blacks” have done…its about how they looked when they did it. They’ll pretend to be blissfully ignorant of any good works that these “bad blacks” have done…and if they do acknowledge it, will dismiss it as some minimal effort on the part of the “bad black” (he didn’t REALLY want to give).

    Nope…it only counts when the “good blacks” give back to the community.

  77. GrownAss man Says:


    If you think that it has nothing to do with the person, and chose to pick one line out of my post, ignoring the obvious acknowledgements I’ve made, then you should give up, because you read what you want, see what you want, and are unable to think outside your personal beliefs on how the world supposedly works.

    Just ask yourself which white athletes are hated and then ask yourself if Marbury and TO share anything in common with them. There are qualities that are undeniably there.

    If it makes you feel better to think that I am some delusional Uncle Tom who’s clueless about America, so be it. It’s usually more comforting to assume those that disagree with us are just evil people. It serves to validate our own beliefs in a rather convenient way

  78. Sportsdiva Says:

    I keep getting pulled back in……
    You know what, she doesn’t have to support MV, but she damn sure shouldn’t sit idly by watching Brenda’s son get unfairly lynched by the media. Once we do that…it becomes really easy to lynch the next man…and eventually they will come for CEO Kenneth.

    Colin was on the wrong side, but it doesn’t mean he should’ve been done as dirty as he was (he probably should’ve expected it though LOL), and I surely expected him to be marginalized by those with the real power, Cheney and ‘nem, and he was, as is Condi. Catch me on a political blog and I’ll show plenty of indignation about how Cynthia McKinney or Barbara Lee are treated. As for Rice and Colin well, I guess if Fox Sports does Whitlock really dirty I’ll feel bad for him and then be reminded about the dynamics that made it happen…of which he was willfully blind.

  79. Sportsdiva Says:

    There was a question after I picked out that one line. I read all of it, that was the line that struck me as worrisome and the other parts of that post don’t make it any less so. Doesn’t it give you pause that one isn’t subject to constant public ridicule while the ‘other’ is??

  80. Jemele Hill Says:

    Let me just say this is an awesome debate.

    I’ll pose a question I’ve posed before on this site:

    What would you have me write?

    For the record, I didn’t paint Vick as a thug. I wrote two columns on Vick, one of which was a sort of plea to young, black men and the other questioning why no one (fans, media, whoever) ever reacted that strongly to crimes against other human beings. No matter how the media reacted or overreacted — which was a by-product of the 24-hour news cycle, Vick’s enormous contract and his race — we wouldn’t have anything to debate had MV never supported an organized, illegal operation for years. That’s just basic.

    Poster Michelle brought up the Vick teammate that killed his girlfriend’s dog with hammer — hope y’all know dude was black, by the way — and I have to ask: In what media world would a player nobody would even know generate the same news attention as the star quarterback making $100 million? And something tells me had PETA jumped on that case — since when do organizations like theirs pick low-level targets — we’d still be back to this ring-around-the-rosie argument about how the black folks get it worst. We can debate this forever, but it seems fairly apparent that the snowball reaction never would have got started had MV just not committed a federal crime. Is that really so hard to ask?

    Let’s just be honest here for a moment — and I bring this up because me and my boyfriend had this discussion for days some time ago. There is a sentiment among black people that we should get the free pass just because white folks have stuck it to us for so long, or done their own dirt. It’s not about what’s right, wrong, fair or responsible. It’s about get-back.

    Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is no get-back for what Af-Ams have been through for hundreds of years. Taking it easy on MV, giving Barry, Pacman or Tank a free pass isn’t going to erase the legacy of Jim Crow, slavery, Emmitt Till, etc.

    As black folks, we bring our hurtful history to every battle. Sometimes, that’s applicable. Sometimes, it’s not. Unfortunately, we have trouble discerning where it’s appropriate to bring into play our long-held hurts. We want to bring them up with Pacman Jones and I can’t help, but think…are we serious? Do you guys really want me to defend a guy who spit in a black woman’s face, beat somebody down with a pool cue, and generally seems clueless?

    As for Whitlock, the reason I said he was an important voice is because I take into account his body of work. As GAM said, his Ty Willingham column was brilliant. You have to remember when he wrote that. He wrote it as soon as Weis got the contract, so people still thought of him as a genius. That was a very unpopular column with the mainstream. It was not obvious racism to the mainstream.

    He also has defended Barry Bonds in many columns, on television, etc. Go back to his interviews with He says point-blank the reason he was kicked off Sports Reporters was because he would not participate in the Bonds witch hunt. You go back to his work at Page 2, and it is really powerful stuff. Or even the Vibe piece he did on Allen Iverson.

    Jason has been at this for more than a decade. He was bringing thoughts and opinions into the mainstream that made people of both races extremely uncomfortable. Sometimes, that’s a good thing.

    Now, I’ve certainly taken issue with his columns. I thought he missed badly on his characterization of Vivian Stringer. His attack on hip hop seems misguided (thought Dave Zirin really got to the meat of that issue). I was disappointed by the way he went after Scoop Jackson, one of the best brothas I know.

    But Jason can write. He’s a fantastic columnist. I may not always agree with his opinions, but he’s a force. Truly.

  81. Sportsdiva Says:

    Sorry, the question I posed was after the Romo line I picked out:

    “Sure, no one’s prosecuting Bill” And that doesn’t give you pause at all??

  82. Sportsdiva Says:


    You know what, we’ve all given plenty of examples over the last several months, I wish someone would’ve archived all of the double standards, especially when it comes to how language is used.

  83. Grownass man,
    I’m not questioning Jemele Hill’s blackness…I’m questioning her journalistic principles, period. I’m questioning how she chooses her subject matter, I’m questioning how she determines her angle, I’m questioning just how much she questions.

    I’m not questioning ANYBODY’S blackness because that sh!t is codified and simplified by these United States of America.

  84. GAM,

    Chad and Larry Johnson were demonized as all that wrong with the NFL(Whitlock). Marbury has on more than one occasion has been called the poster boy of all the NBA’s problems. It’s the broad brush that pisses me off. For every Elijah Dukes, there is a Curtis Granderson, but he’s no good because he’s not a good punch line for places like The Big Lead or Deadspin. This is why we have TSF, Sports On My Mind, S2N, and COSELLOUT. There are two sides to everyone, the MSM only deals with the one that sells. If it bleeds, it leads…

  85. If I had to guess, I’d say Grownass is closer to the subject then the rest of us. Probably get a little interesting if Kevdog comes back with something scathing.

    But I think he has a point, why does Jemele have to subjugate her own personality and feelings to qualify her ‘blackness’? We’re all entitled to our beliefs, and it appears a lot of you don’t feel that she is enough of a dissenting voice in the world of white media. But you know, I don’t really think ESPN is the place for that. Wiley pulled it off, but he was established and I don’t know how to say it… he was good.

    I come to TSF for the alternate view… I just avoid ESPN, and I’m a month in to my boycott (at least of the internet). People that read ESPN don’t want a dissenting view, every time I read the comments I get kind of scared of people. I’m not saying she has to ride the line or be like Whitlock, but unless you can pull it off subtly and with style (Wiley)….

    Anyway easier to sit in judgment of another and point out flaws without pointing out solutions. I’m fully aware of my glass house, I refrain from throwing stones.

  86. GrownAss man Says:

    No one is prosecuting Bill because his only crime is being an a-hole. Just like TO, he’s done nothing wrong, other than be a jerk, and undermined the best black QB of all time (my opinion). Neither deserves an arrest.

    Jemele, WELL PUT. Keep doing what you do. You’re YB&G and you brought up points that I either forgot or just wasn’t smart enough to make. But obviously, you don’t need defending; you did it your damn self.

  87. Damn, Damn, Damn…..Jemele, you mean to tell me you read through all of that …….and you still missed the POINT?? How the hell did you do that?? WTF?? All that…and your question is what if Vick never got involved then we wouldn’t be having this debate?? Like hell! We’d just be having it on another brother that has been demonized to Hades, perceived as a satanic beast with no redeeming qualities while you pat yourself on the back for pointing out “oh yeah, he was wrong”……. DAMN!

  88. GMP,
    Ya know what….you make a great point…something that I keep forgetting about ESPN…the E stands for ENTERTAINMENT.

  89. HAHA………………good one Des.

    Also don’t forget about Lebron mother getting a DUI being reported.
    Or AIs father getting busted with drugs getting reported.

    But Bret Farves sister is involved in a drive bye shooting ( She drove the car while her friends were shooting out the window) and it is never reported.

    Joe Theisman calls Ricky out for smoking dope and the media talks about this for a week.

    But Joe’s son is busted selling coke and it gets swept under the rug.

  90. You could compare Nate Newton and Bill Maas too

  91. Lord have mercy………….Jemele………….black folks ain’t asking for a free pass you and I know that. We are asking for fair coverage.

    You remind me of the engineer who helped make those faulty firestone tires that was killing everybody.

    “Well if those people would have not driven so fast they would not have turned the truck over.”

  92. Also was John lucas coke problem always mentioned when he coached.

    Yet Scott Skiles coke problemis never mentioned.

    They mention his drinking problem but not the coke problem.

    Reminds me how the media always says that lindsey lohan has a drinking problem.

    No the heffa has a drinking and coke problem.

  93. Oh hell….I’m sucked back in…..

    Jemele, you ask this in reference to Jonathan Babineaux
    “and I have to ask: In what media world would a player nobody would even know generate the same news attention as the star quarterback making $100 million?”

    The same damn world that now has me knowing the 3rd receiver for the Bengals, a ex-DT for the Bears and the CB for the Tennessee Titans….. take a straw poll…how many people knew off the top of their heads who Chris Henry, Tank Johnson or Adam Jones was before 2006????

  94. GMP I wouldn’t spend a red cent on anything from Disney including ESP N crap.

  95. Origin-

    I think you could go all day with this one if you tried hard enough.
    Though, why we as a society give a rat’s f..k about Paris, Lindsey, Britney and whatever coked up ‘actresses’ that have chosen to royally screw up their lives by 25, I don’t know. I also don’t rubberneck when I see an accident on the road. Some (most?) people enjoy basking in the misery of others.

    Tangental, sorry, but you brought the white girl f..k ups into the conversation.

  96. Miranda is that the same media that swept Payton mannings sexual harassment charge under the rug?

  97. Sportsdiva Says:

    And somehow Jake Plummer’s bird was less offensive than Vicks. LOL

  98. Sportsdiva Says:

    GAM, to clarify about Romo, I was thinking the word ‘persecution’ when you were actually using the word ‘prosecution’ my bad.
    So I meant media ‘persecution’ not ‘prosecution’ in the legal system.

  99. Sportsdiva Says:

    FYI, I didn’t know about Favre’s sister and didn’t know about Skiles problems with the white horse.

  100. GMP just stating how their drug addicts are always never mentioned.

    Whether its her or D@MN Miss America. Remember she was a coke head but yet the media only mentions her drinking problem.

    Reids kids sell drugs, but only their drug problem is mentioned.

    Its always the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to reporting the illegal activities of non minorites.

    When they talk about LT don’t they talk about his drug problem? When they talk about Bobby and Whitney don’t they talk about their drug problem.

    Mercury Morris was addicted to coke and slanged it.

    Yet the media never states that he just did coke. They state that he sold it also.

  101. Origin,
    The very one and the same! Please…..I’ve heard that “well Vick’s a big name that’s why he got the coverage”………..then explain why in the hell I had to see Chris Henry over and over and over again in the news?? He’s the 3rd receiver for the Bengals for heavensakes!!!!!!!!!!!!! And don’t dare give me the “well he was a repeat offender” bullsh!t either….because we ALL know Josh Hancock was a repeat offender and the only reason he made the news was because he KILLED himself in the process of his offense.

  102. GrownAss man Says:


    Here’s a question: Does the fact that the MSM was as you say “dispproportionate” in their attacks on Vick make it any less appropriate to condemn what he’s done? Is it her responsibility not to have her own take on his actions, or withhold her view of his poor choices because the media is racist? There are victims to rally behind in this battle, shouldn’t we be a little more selective about whom we support?

    O.J. (the irnony of any black woman defending him or anything about him is hilarious), Pacman (see Jemele’s post about him spitting and punching), and Vick are way down on my list. There are plenty need and deserve my support more.

  103. I think we can all agree that we could all do without the police blotter mentality of ESPN, that has been played out (and discussed at other times). I’m not sure how to change the culture of ESPN other than to avoid it, so I do. But I don’t like feeling the need to point out white athlete indiscretions just because black athlete indiscretions caught press. I’d rather see none of it in the news.

    If you gave me a couple hundred thousand at 21 and 5 months off a year….I’d probably be dead. I managed some interesting things on far less than that with no time off, and much stricter environment. Personally, I’d be happier if MSM stopped getting their kicks off of young adults screwing up rather than detailing everyone who has a run in with the cops.

  104. Sportsdiva I went to college at University of Southern Mississippi with Farves sister. As you know Farve is legend is this area.

    So is Steve Mcnair, Clarence Weatherspoon, Eric Dampier because they went to highschool about 40 minutes away.

    But it was no thing to see these guys in hattiesburg or chilling on the campus during the offseason.

    It was well known that Farves sister was a little criminal. The girl stayed in trouble. I even had class with her the semester she did the drive bye.

    Farve came down and had to pull some strings to get her out of jail.
    The messed up part she got busted in Gulfport about a month later shoplifting.

  105. Origin,
    You remind me of the engineer who helped make those faulty firestone tires that was killing everybody.

    “Well if those people would have not driven so fast they would not have turned the truck over.”

    Now that is just classic bruh….just classic….nice.

  106. Thanks sista.

    I been hot about that mess for awhile. I remember jemele was on 730 am here is Dallas talking that same mess.

  107. I rarely post but had to follow up on Origin’s comment about Fav-rah.

    Other glossed over facts about Fav-rah that the MSM will never discuss:

    In addition to her drive-by shooting, Brandi was arrested for felony shoplifting in Biloxi, Mississippi.

    His brother, Scott was convicted for a felony DUI that killed a passenger.

    Before his senior season, a drunk Fav-rah flipped his car into a ditch, which resulted in a broken vertebra and three feet of his intestines being removed.

    When he was drafted by the Falcons, he showed up several times to practice drunk and Glanville sent him home.

    He was a notorious boozer and skirt chaser in Northern Wisconsin before rehab.

    He had a tantrum when the Packers did not try and pick-up T.O. and did ask to be traded after the Packers couldn’t seal the deal on Moss. He has also advocated the Packers trading for Jamal Lewis, Ocho Cinco, and Ricky Williams.

    As an aside, if hip-hop is to blame for everything under the sun, then shouldn’t Frank Sinatra, Opera, and Italian arias be blamed for all the murder, mayhem, and crime committed by the Mafia since the early 1900s?

  108. Origin,
    I’m tellin ya…..I haven’t seen that kind of logic since I watched “American Pimp”……..pimpology is in full effect at the world wide leader…..might as well have their home office on Bankhead in the ATL.

  109. Thanks Bosco I couldn’t remember if it was Gulfport or Biloxi.
    They are right next to one another.

    And yes his brother is in prison. That was his brothers 3rd DUI I believe.

    Going to college in that area it is well known that he was a drunk. Acyually on that day he flipped the car he was drunk something that the media doesn’t talk about but is well known in Hattiesburg.

    My cousin who went to Southern Miss with Farve would help him with his paper and said it was no thing for farve to go to the club get drunk and start a fight. A few times the hattiesburg police would be called and they would have to take him back to the dorm.

    But he was the star QB so nothing was said.

    But hey I have seen Farve and Mcnair at the bars and restaurants drunk as a skunk in the off season. No lie.

  110. Damn Bosco,

    Way to drop the info. I didn’t know any of this about golden boy Brett.

  111. Grown man………….I was comparing Lucas to Skiles.

    Both played in the 80s and did dope in the 80s.

    Yet till this day lucas dope use is talked about.

    And if you read the article they are talking about bretts sister in the drive bye.

    This is about how the media reports stuff.

    As I said why is AIs father selling dope reported? But not Farve pretending she is in Harlem nights? Why is Lebrons mother being reported for a DUI but not Brett Farves sister.

  112. GrownAss man Says:

    Ok, wait. Skiles got caught with weed and coke IN 1984 at MSU. Hardley the same, and to compare the sports media climate in 1984 to that now is dishonest at best.

    Oh, and Farve’s sister:

    Not quite a drive by. Don’t counter every barely reported story about a black athlete’s family member with every rumour you’ve heard about some white athlete. If you wanted to call Farvre out, how bout his own alcohol and pain killer problems.

    But again, Barry Bonds, Ty Willingham, McNabb, I’m with you. These other cats….

  113. This is from Ishamel Reed it was written in 1989 and republished in 2002 and it’s the the opening paragraphs, it goes to the same issues that Hill, Whitlock and the White Press loves to make 18 Million Black Americans Males the scapegoat for America’s problems.

    he Black Pathology Biz

    Ishmael Reed
    This article originally appeared in the November 20, 1989 issue.

    Black pathology is big business. Two-thirds of teenage mothers are white, two-thirds of welfare recipients are white and white youth commit most of the crime in this country. According to a recent survey, reported by the Oakland Tribune, the typical crack addict is a middle-class white male in his 40s. Michele Norris of a has cited a study that dis- covered “no significant difference in the rate of drug use during pregnancy among women in the public clinics that serve a largely indigent population and those visiting private doctors who cater to upper-income patients.” Yet in the popular imagination blacks are blamed for all these activities, in the manner that the Jews took the rap for the Black Plague, even in countries with little or no Jewish population.

    Now that network news shows have become “profit centers,” news producers have found a lucrative market in exhibiting black pathology, while coverage of pathologies such as drug addiction, child abuse, spousal battering and crime among whites and their “model minorities” is negligible. According to the news shows, you’d think that two black gangs, the Crips and the Bloods, are both the cause and the result of the nation’s drug problem, even though this country was high long before these children were born.

  114. Sportsdiva Says:

    Thanks E.D.
    I got that link earlier, a very good read!

  115. Great one brotha I read that piece earlier as well. Actually I was just about to post the link.

  116. (OriLord have mercy………….Jemele………….black folks ain’t asking for a free pass you and I know that. We are asking for fair coverage.

    You remind me of the engineer who helped make those faulty firestone tires that was killing everybody.

    “Well if those people would have not driven so fast they would not have turned the truck over.”gin) (quote)

    That’s anyone here on this board is asking for, “Fair and Balanced” coverage on Black Ballplayers out of nearly 2,000 professional American Black Atlhletes who play sports for a living and only say what 60 are acting a fool for minor felonies and misdemeanors and one guy gets a RICO case which the Feds clearly overstepped their bounds on and one day will be on a court docket when the Feds try what should have been a state case.

    Ms. Hill and GAM, I don’t think it’s too much of a leap that the MSWM and their black acolytes like “Big Chitlin” are biased against Black Males in the press in this country. Like Conservatives say all the folks here on the TSF want is balanced coverage IN IT’S REPORTING and not make subjects like Vick’s dogfighting like it was Dresden or Micheal Vick the second coming of Josef Mengale he actually was “Dr. Death”.

  117. “In 1996, Brandi Favre was charged with unlawful use of a weapon in connection with a drive-by shooting at a motel in Slidell, La. At the time she was a student at Southern Mississippi, where Brett Favre played. ”

    Umm….sounds like it IS quite a drive by.

  118. TheLastPoet Says:


    There was a time not so long ago when I would have enjoyed such an important debate and been desperate to get my licks in. But this really isn’t a debate so much as it is disperate people in disperate camps misrecognizing each other.

    But wait. Even after all was said and done, Ms Hill still had the gall to ask, “would you (read: you silly TSF rebels) rather I DEFEND guys who spit on folk and beat people with pool sticks, etc?”

    Yeah, I recognize that. With those words of hers, I can plainly see that, despite her indictment of the Tanks and Pacmans of the world, it is in fact Ms Hill who “doesn’t get it.”

    But, of course, that’s why she makes the big money at ESPN. I mean, no one here honestly believes that Blacks can get jobs in the Big House without sounding almost exactly like whitefolk, thinking and acting like whitefolk, even if they do not necessarily look like them?

    Well, in all of her replies here, that’s exactly who she sounds like, whitefolk. Mind you, whitefolk isn’t always a color, rather its a state of mind. So in that regard, Mr Whitlock is whitefolk, too, as are many others.

    When it comes to the attitudes and behaviors of whitefolk, I’ve heard it all before. That’s another reason why I don’t comment so much anymore, because I get tired of repeating myself. But no matter how often we say the samesensible things over and over again, whitefolk still come wearing clever disguises, wrapping the same ol bullshid in shiny new packaging, and daring us to debate them anew.

    I don’t care that Ms Hill hails from Detroit, or that she digs Trane. There’s whitefolk from Motown who dig Trane, too. Sadly, Ms Hill continues to remind me of some of them.

    I say to all of you: Origin, Michelle, Goober, Miranda, Sportsdiva, et al, Ms Hill is not presently in the material position or psychological state of mind to really grasp what yall are saying, ie, you’re barking up the wrong tree!

    So i’ll say again as i’ve said before:

    Thanks for your effort, Ms Hill, but we still deserve better!

  119. Sportsdiva Says:

    I backed off for a while also because I too was sick of repeating myself, but sometimes you can’t help it. LOL
    That being said, thanks for the words and I’ve got to start watching my blood pressure. 🙂

  120. LP,
    “no one here honestly believes that Blacks can get jobs in the Big House without sounding almost exactly like whitefolk, thinking and acting like whitefolk, even if they do not necessarily look like them? ”

    Thanks….I do recognize that….the diversity is completely cosmetic. Hell, if Keli Naqi messes around and catches a deep tan, Jemele might be out of a job.

  121. Great interview Mizzo. Wish there were more of you among the mainstream.
    I really enjoyed all the music and also your poem. Nice placement. You must really like Minnie. She was a love gone too soon.

    Question for all of you…
    What is your opinion of Mizzo bringing Ms. Hill on the site? She didn’t have to do this interview. This is not about entitlement, so don’t get me wrong. But, I’m not quite understanding all the Jemele Hill hatred. Dig the music and calm down people. I don’t think Ms. Hill is your enemy.

  122. This is a great site with a very intelligent community. Mizzo you are on to something here. Stay humble my brotha, the folk you all criticize are coming after you for sure.

    Pardon me if this may sound stupid, but who is Kev Dog?

  123. Sweet Jones Says:

    Jemele Hill says: “Let’s just be honest here for a moment ….. There is a sentiment among black people that we should get the free pass just because white folks have stuck it to us for so long, or done their own dirt. It’s not about what’s right, wrong, fair or responsible. It’s about get-back. ”

    I simply don’t understand how, after numerous trips to and interactions with the posters of TSF, you believe this to be the impetus of the critiques of your writings.

    I’m speechless.

  124. LP:

    I haven’t read the debate…I just saw that you posted and decided to cut to the chase. To quote PE:

    “We’re brothers of the same mind, unblind
    Caught in the middle ‘n
    Not surrenderin’
    We don’t rhyme for the sake of riddlin’

    y’all know the rest…Don’t Believe the Hype

    I find your sentiment concerning preparedness/readiness/mindfulness to receive these words is just as I felt this afternoon. I am certain, as you were, that attempts were made to be patronizing. It’s all good. I’m not going there. I’m posting to say that I certainly agree with your assessment.

    And that’s it.

  125. LP has hit on some important issues and his weariness at repeating himself echos my own at times. Still, I do believe there is a time and a place, as JG illustrates, for the battle to be enjoined.

    First I’d like to briefly address GAM. In short, he’s not worth much conversation on these matters. His style is typical of those of limited intelligence and even more narrow POV’s. In virtually every post he’s shown the same technique. He takes someone’s argument or position, restates it in a bastardized form creating a straw man and then attacks the very straw man he’s created. He’s clearly not worthy of any meaningful response. But he did raise an issue that I think should be addressed.

    The black conservative seems obsessed with seeming objective to white America. But any reasonable concept of objectivity must include a comprehensive analysis of the topic at hand. Ms. Hill, Scrapplin’ lips, JA Adande et al have made a cottage industry of attacking black athletes and black culture and in the process, have made conservative blacks and most whites comfortable with them because those entities believe them to be objective. Yet, all of that support would quickly disappear if they displayed the critical analysis objectivity actually demands. Clearly when you are comfortable, as Ms. Hill et al apparently are, with calling black America out by name, yet will never do so for white America, then you aren’t being honest, objective or courageous. You’re simply being a Tom.
    So let’s just squash this ridiculous argument where it intersects with the concept of objectivity.

    You know, I really want to like Ms. Hill. She and I share a simliar background. We both grew up in poor-single parent households on public assistance and food stamps. We have both had to overcome difficult situations in order to attain the success we have. And we have some of the same taste in music. In particular I too love Mary J. Blige and John Coltrane.

    And a note about those two. Despite the fact that MJB can’t really sing a lick and has a marginal voice, she’s the only singer on the pop scene I’d pay a nickle to hear in person. Not only does she have a tremendous rhythmic sense and a voice that epitomizes her place and her time, her great strength lies in her passion and believability. Most of these so called singers out there, hell, almost none of them for that matter, make me believe what they sing about as much as if they were singing the phone book. But MJB is simply for real, soul layed bare, unashamed. I love her.

    My true passion in music is Jazz and Trane is one of the Gods of Jazz. As I get older, and more aware of my own mortality, his spiritual search through his music means more and more to me. He’s definitely in my personal top 10 musicians of all time.

    Getting back to topic. And understanding that I’m a poor, stiff writer, I’ll make a few comments about where I think Ms. Hill is and where I think she needs to grow towards.

    Ms. Hill calls her own number for the articles she’s written wherein she supports black causes. Althea Gibson, Imus, the Kobe article, etc and she’s got a point. She HAS addressed certain issues that the white folks on ESPN, and let’s get this out in the open and straight-75% of white American males are Republican and 95% of those who make decisions or are in the public on the racist machine are white American males. The math is easy, the network is a racist machine worthy of the garbage heap-but I digress. Ms. Hill does some worthy articles. But she isn’t being close to intellectually honest. She fails to note how she reflexively tries to make white folks comfortable by her jibes at blacks. Hint. Ms. Hill. When you write an article supporting a black athlete, you don’t have to list how white America feels about them as a matter of reflex. You lie and say you’re being objective, yet you apparently don’t feel the same need to be objective when discussing white athletes. Your white boy colleagues moralize and attack the black athlete at every turn and they have no shame when it comes to lack of objectivity. You look like a fool and a Tom when you go out of your way to do what the white boys will never do.

    And that brings me to another issue. You’ve deflected to death a question that I’ve asked several times. I’ll ask it again and see if you have the courage to answer it.


    Surely if enough blacks are guilty of glorifying a culture based on material goods, lack of respect for woman and education and generally apologizing and making excuses for our cultural failings that you feel the need to call us all out, then enough whites are guilty of perpetuating white supremacy, racial hatred, and double standards for you to call them out specifically as white folks. Yet from you, and everyone of the other house Niggas on The Racist Machine, not a damn peep.

    My objection to you is the fact that you swim in a tank with white sharks who mean us nothing but harm, you laugh and joke with them, you join in on moralizing and attacking black athletes and indeed black people in general, yet you won’t step up and call a spade a spade.

    You may be loved by white folks Ms. Hill, and apparently that is what you’re after, but you’ll always be viewed with suspicion by those amongst us in the black community who recognize your lack of courage and empathy for your own people.

    As to your assessment of Scrapplin’ lips……LOL, in writing, insight is more than half the battle. Scrapplin’ lips is ignorant, literally stupid, completely lacking in insight into the human condition and would sell everyone of us-meaning black folks- if it made him an extra buck. Frankly, he should be taken out back and shot.

    You seem surprised and saddened that Jordan pulled the stunt he did at his alma mater. And this is just illustrates my concern for you and my hope. Frankly, you, Adande, Smith are simply too young to have the positions you have. You haven’t a sense of history, of life, of the black experience enough to go on ESPN and do your job well. Oh sure, you write interesting articles and you’ve blended into their culture. but your lack of knowledge limits you. Jordan surprised you because he dogged out the black students at UNC? Shit, do a little DD and see how he dogged every black person in his home state with the Harvey Gannt/Strom Thurmond thing. Jordan is a sucka nigga AND a house Nigga all rolled into one.

    You say you might have to start liking Barry Bonds as the white folks show their ass to you. Little Girl, you’ve got a lot to learn but the fact that you can even start to consider what you said there shows me that you’ve a chance to grow into something special. But your ego and pride and sense of accomplishment at being let into the white folks club provide your challenge. Do yourself a favor, listen to those who came before you and learn a little humility, at least enough to recognize that you have more to learn than you can possibly know.

  126. Yo! GrownAssMan, slow your roll there fellah! I don’t know how long you have been reading the TSF forum, but to come in here all gangsta is bad shit!

    No one here has ever said Africans doing bad need to get a pass. Yes, we ask that Mrs. Hill adhere to a standard that is consistant all day and all night. You and others keep bringing up O.J’s run in with the law, what the fuck where you people doing back at the “trial of the century”?

    Johnny Cochran set out to prove that not only was Fehrman was a crooked prick-per usual-but that in no way did a aging ex-foot ball player with arthritic hands is going to slash to people with barely a struggle with a damn dog present and NO NEIGHBOURS HEARD!

    Also I taught martial arts for a time and competed as a kick boxer and in Full contact kung Fu…so I state here that in no way was O.J. going to do all of that shit with out a peep from two grown ass people in a fight or flight mode! Then be on a plane to Chicago in less time it takes to run a 400 meter srprint. Yet most people Africans and Europeans believe the shit that O.J. killed that woman and her switch hitting boy toy.

    The only thing O.J is guilty of is being an embarassment to intelligence and common sense.

    Jamele also refuses to talk about “blood sucker” Murdoch but refuse or fail to realize that O.J was approached to write a book about his feelings about the case, and he originally was opposed to the idea, until they waved fools gold in his face.

    From the time I’ve been here I have more than enough reason to believe that no one here will defend you because you are African. No we raise hell and serve notice when inconsistancy and duplicity is disguised as reality.

    She also keeps talking about Barry’s alleged “prickocity” and her deeper knowledge than any one here, but as Origin I think asked..”where is the beef- where is your proof? Don’t throw shit out and not substantiate it…not when you expect us to believe your journalism skills is on a higher tip.

    “when my enemies come against me, it makes me stronger, when my people come against me it weakens me”

  127. Jemele Hill Says:

    Now, if the issue is proving there is media bias, you will get no debate from me. I wasn’t trying to prove that there wasn’t. All I was asking was this: Can I criticize MV, Pacman, Tank, (enter aggrieved black man here), without being a sellout, “whitefolk,” or the like? Because the resounding word from here seems to be NO.

    No matter how many times I point out my full body of work, you all insist on seeing it (and me) narrowly. And when I do point out my other work, then it’s pooh-poohed as being simple-minded because it was so “obvious.”


    If I didn’t write about Althea Gibson, who else at ESPN would have? Who else did? If I didn’t write that Randy Moss and Brat Favre say the same things, but Moss is villified and Fevre is beloved, who else would have? If I didn’t write about the lack of African-American female coaches in the NCAA, who else would have? If I didn’t write about Matt Leinart and Tom Brady and the white baby daddy issue, then who else would have? If I didn’t write that Rick Ankiel’s HGH was rationalized by the media, who else would have?

    If, according to some of you, it’s true that these columns, ideas, opinions are so easy, how come everyone doesn’t write about them? You can’t have it both ways, criticize me for pointing out “obvious” racism, then complaining that no one from the mainstream brings it to people’s attention. Which is it?

    You all basically are judging me by MV, even though I wrote two columns that covered both spectrums — the over-reaction as well as what it meant from a black community sense. Nevermind Rob Parker and I were on a race panel on ESPN’s First Take discussing and bringing up some of the issues you all have brought up in this thread.

    Bueller? Bueller?

    But getting back to something GAM said, do you all really expect me to write the “what-about-the-white-folks” column EVERY TIME a black athlete is in trouble? Do you really think that’s always the appropriate response? Sometimes, it is. Sometimes, it isn’t. Circumstances dictate everything. I’ve got no problem writing that concerning Barry Bonds (see: Rick Ankiel), Randy Moss, but no, I’m not writing that about Pacman Jones. I pretty much don’t feel like I have a leg to stand on with Mr. Making It Rain. McNabb, yes.

    Someone asked many posts ago how I arrive at my angles and opinions. Likely the same way as everyone else. Two people can look at the same photograph and see different things. As I stated in the Q & A with Mizzo, NO ONE at ESPN tells me what to write. I come up with my own ideas 90 percent of the time. They help me polish, bring up counterpoints to ensure I have the strongest column, and generally behave as any editor would. Columns are shaped by reporting, life experience and critical thinking. How you grew up and what you think about things shapes what you write.

    Now responding to a couple previous responses….

    — Origin: Your analogy concerning the Firestone tires and the engineer was a little shaky. Michael Vick wasn’t forced into dog fighting. He made the decision on his own. He knew what he was getting into, funded the operation, which is a whole lot different than the unsuspecting consumer who has no idea that his/her tires are kerosene. Try again.

    – Re: Scott Skiles: I’m from Detroit and went to MSU and I can personally attest that Skiles was public enemy No. 1 in Michigan. That was a HUGE story. Understand it was a different news cycle then. Although, I generally agree about the way substance abuse issues are framed differently relegated to race (see: Brat Favre). However, in terms of LT, he talks about his past so much that also is a reason some of that is framed the way it is.

    – Re: The police blotter mentality: Next to the 24-hour news cycle, that’s the most significant way sports reporting has changed. It’s not just ESPN, but all news-gathering outlets.

    – Tony Dungy: An unfair characterization. Dungy might be liked by the mainstream, but he’s stuck his neck out there more than a few times. Remember, this is the guy who blasted ABC for that MNF parody with Nicollette Sheridan and T.O. He was the only one to say how he thought the parody was in bad taste because it was racy, but it hit on the stereotype that black athletes just want to be with white women. Good Knee-gro? You are selling Tony waaaaay short.

  128. TheLastPoet,KevDog,Sankofa,

    DAMN!! As I’ve said before about my girls SportsDiva and Miranda. The knowledge you guys bring here is incredible. This discussion is classic. What I’m learning here is equally as valuable as some of the paid courses I took in school. My soul thanks you all. I’m sure deep down Jemele thanks you to.

  129. Jemele Hill Says:


    There are some things I know about Barry I can’t repeat on this site. And if it makes you feel any better, they were told to me by other black people.

    As for OJ, I believe I covered the fact that I wrote a column about how he was the victim of trumped-up charges. I kept my personal feelings about the first “Trial of Century” out of that column because I really didn’t want 10,000 emails from people re-trying the case to me all over again. The column was not about the book. That was one line in a column about the stuff in Vegas.

    By the way, I hope you see the irony in you pointing out that Murdoch was a bloodsucker, but that O.J. had to do the book because they waved too much money in his face.


  130. GrownAssMan…

    With all due respect, I think you should change your name to PerfectAssMan. I have read and re-read your posts – and I certainly respect your capacity to process information. Your posts, while somewhat strident, are full of thoughtful nuances. I can appreciate that.

    However, there is a bond which you appear to share with Ms. Hill and Mr. Whitlock. To add to the list, I would place the names John McWhorter and Thomas Sowell. Now, we’ve never met professionally and I have no intention of being disrespectful – but the folks on this list have two things in common: professional mediocrity and what I call “The Strivers Complex.” I wouldn’t begin to guess about your qualifications – because it’s beside the point.

    Whitlock, Ms. Hill’s compliments notwithstanding, has yet to establish himself in the pantheon of his field. In fact, without focusing on his contemptible views and shoddy data collection, there is sufficient debate about his skill to sustain him in purgatory for decades. Ralph Wiley, Bill Rhoden and many, many folks have nothing to fear. Sowell is widely known as a mediocre economist. The same is true of McWhorter as a linguist. And Ms. Hill has great potential, but she has yet to establish her final voice (that’s to be expected).

    The Strivers Complex, for lack of a better phrase, simply refers to a commonly held belief that the BEHAVIOR of individual BLACK PERSONS has an impact on the manner in which White Supremacy (as an institutionalized system of cultural, informational and resource governance) impacts Black people, collectively.

    Now, I understand that many of the people on this list have an avowed willingness to disregard white folks – even though their language often gives lie to that position. The practice of discussing ethics, effort and achievement by Black folks is not new among the Best of Us. We’ve always done this – in our homes, in our churches, in our mosques, in our businesses and even on pulpits on 125th Street. No group, over the past six decades, has spent more time discussing the need for ethics, effort and achievement than the Nation of Islam. In the preceding generations, no group focused more on that than the Universal Negro IMPROVEMENT Association. These organizations implored their members to put their Creator first and strive to manifest the will of the divine for the sake of themselves, their families and their posterity.

    And, with all the fire and brimstone that would come from Marcus Mosiah Garvey or Malcolm X, these organizations and their leaders have not been considered sell outs. Now isn’t this curious. A people who are clearly used to hearing messages of personal responsibility and collective uplift are REJECTING this message from certain persons.

    Garvey and Malcolm X came from humble roots – just as most of us did. I won’t get autobiographical, but access to education has been my pathway away from intergenerational poverty. For some, it is performance (singing, dunking, blocking, tacking)…for others it’s hustling. In some sense, many of us are strivers of different stripes. What we all have in common is that we have lived under the threat of EXTREME VIOLENCE in opposition to ECONOMIC SELF-HELP for four centuries. Now, why is that relevant? Well, I maintain it’s relevant for a very simple reason…Even Black folks as accomplished as Bill Cosby are only cash rich. They’re not institution rich. They’re not industry rich – and this is not for a lack of trying. Our attempts to carve out niches and/or dominant positions in industry has been met with viligante violence, union attacks, organized crime and state violence in most every locale. The music and boxing industries are probably the best examples.

    And so, for lack of an industrial/commercial employment base, our poorest youth are still engaged in territorial narcotrafficking. That’s what they call it when you’re not CVS or Rite-Aid. And when you’re on the street competing over finite SPACE (because the STATE intercedes to prevent trafficking in other areas), you get violence. The same thing happened in the 1930’s when the criminals were Jewish, Italian and Irish. What strivers don’t seem to appreciate is that Jewish, Italian and Irish criminals did not reform or disappear – they infiltrated – they changed their hair, their names and their accents – and they sent their children to college to sustain their criminal organizations and skirt the laws. When a 28 year-old 3rd generation kid on Wall Street can afford to pay a $22 million fine to the SEC, you should know that by and large, we’re not playing the same game.

    In other words, this isn’t about the PerfectNegro, the UnimpeachableNegro, the GuessWho’sComingToDinnerNegro…it’s about that nigger down the street that every one thinks is – I believe you used “a shitty person.” Yeah, it’s about that person. It’s about building the institutional capacity amongst ourselves to heal those persons – and it’s about our capacity to collaborate.

    And it is perhaps because Garvey’s UNIA and the NOI were so grounded in that philosophy that they were not subjected to the criticisms leveled at these sportswriters. Perhaps it is because Garvey and Malcolm X embedded their political practice in an empirical approach that they were champion defenders of their people. There is nothing wrong with striving…we all need a little hustle sometimes (and I mean that in the best sense) – we need not have a complex about those of us who have yet to manifest the divine within themselves.

    Surely, our historical analysis has revealed that the least of us are not the cause of our many, many troubles.

  131. Temple3,

    I thank you as well.

  132. No! The Irony is that O.J is vilified for being a bloodsucker but not Murdoch as is the case whenever there is a so called ‘white/black dynamic”. this is the core of TSF, COSELLOUT and SOM, TEMPLE3 and so forth who fight for JUSTICE… NOT JUST US!.

    I mentioned the O.J. trial because people like to refer to that as proof that he was guilty. Being a sucker and an idiot should excuse rational and “fair people” from being honest and consistant.

    And let me caution you, no matter your dislike for Bonds, if you come in half stepping you will be called on it. It would be best of you don’t say anything or hint there is more then don’t provide anything of substance, because then we will call you on that too, because all we are reading is!

    “There are some things I know about Barry I can’t repeat on this site. And if it makes you feel any better, they were told to me by other black people.”

  133. As I get ready for work and say goodbye for the evening.

    I gotta step up my game on this forum cause right now next to all of you I’m feeling like the black guy from Not Another Teen Movie that kept saying “This SH.. IS WHACK”

    Good night all, as always it’s been a pleasure talking to ya.

  134. SportsDiva Says:

    And with that…you articulated so much that I have never been able to and tied it up so succinctly that it can’t fall apart. Strong.

  135. T3

    That’s as good as it gets. Thanks for the ammo.

  136. Before I start let me say this: I’m not smart like GAM, Temple3, or Sankofa. I;m not tremendously literate like Miranda, Sportsdiva, or the guys who run TSF. As a matter of fact i am still a blue-collar bi-racial guy who works 9 to 5 trying to catch people before they become something that the criminal justice system is forced to deal with.

    So here’s what I have to say to a variety of people. KevDog I don’t like Whitlock much like you do. He’s lazy, soft, and more willing than he should be to trade on the lowest common denominator. But I am NEVER, repeat, NEVER going to advocate Whitlock being taken out back and shot. That’s beyond the pale.

    You know what bothers me much more than Pacman, Vick, Tank, Barry, and everyone else put together? What I see every day when I go to work. Instead of trying to stick up for them let’s watch the Next. Keep them from the things you can control (like Childhood Obesity), and teach them how to outwit the racists and the half-wits.

    That’s it and that’s all.

  137. Thanks SD and Kev. I was just saying what Okori said. He’s right – it’s that simple but we have to believe in transcendence and transformation and we can’t throw our folks to the wolves. Whenever you listen to those old speeches Malcolm would break you down – but he never let you leave without building you back up. That’s the tradition – critique the behavior, love the soul, rebuild the person. That’s what people expect whatever your bully pulpit may be.

  138. Ms. Hill,

    Thank you for doing this interview, and for taking the time to engage with the comments.

    I’d like to ask you to consider the high esteem everyone shows for Ralph Wiley. He’s held up as a hero, and we loved him just as much when he was alive. Did Wiley refuse to criticize black athletes? Not at all. He wrote the most scathing assessment of OJ Simpson that I ever read. Go read his archives, and see he had no problem criticizing black athletes for their actions on and off the field.

    So think hard about it. Why did we love Wiley so much, and why do we dismiss so many black sports writers working now?

  139. and just one more thing Temple:

    If you really want to help, if you really want to advance the cause of not just black people but PEOPLE, become a Big Brother or a Big Sister. We need all the help we can get out there.

  140. SportsDiva Says:

    Okori why would you assume that T3 wasn’t already?

    When you said, “let’s watch the next” I thought no doubt, that’s a given. Our passion about the issues discussed here is an important part of the entire equation of ‘watching the next’; making sure their images are treated fairly with that big for-profit lens, is important as is the daily grind and people can contribute to that in so many different ways and from what I’ve read here over the months, most do.

    We need to be thoughtful and willing to fight for the next on all fronts.

  141. I was using Temple’s name to make a bigger point. I didn’t mean to imply that Temple did or didn’t help. But, and this is one of the few things I like about TO< he serves as a good role model to the kids I work with. He’s eyepoppingly fit, isn’t out late, and generally seems like a good brother.

  142. Jemele Hill Says:


    Ralph Wiley was one of my heroes. He is the best black columnist ever, in my opinion and is among the top-5 of all time, regardless of race or sex. Every now and again I open his “What Black People Need To Do Now” book and thumb through it. And, yes, his O.J. column was unbelievable.

    Neither I or Jason, or any black columnist, is above criticism, although I wish a few of you would understand that he and I do not hold the same beliefs.

    But again, the 24-hour news cycle has changed things so dramatically. If I wrote MV was an idiot 10 years ago, it would hit like a whisper. Today, it’s a shout. One column can get you on CNN, MSNBC, and the like. So even if you aren’t trying to necessarily villify someone to the death, it comes across that way because of the voraciousness of the news cycle.

    OH, KevDog, don’t think I forgot about you…

    I only wish you weren’t quite so bitter because then you wouldn’t be so misguided and WRONG. That blustering diatriabe you offered was off-base, inaccurate and insulting. I am no one’s “Little Girl,” and been in this game long enough to feel comfortable about where I stand and who I am.

    You calling me a Tom is rich. You accuse me and GAM of presenting half-truths, but you do the same and use inciteful language to make fruitless points. You accuse us of being limited and narrow, but that’s exactly what you sound like.

    My humility is well intact. Yours? I wonder. I’ve always respected your opinion, but you cheapen everything I’ve worked for by reducing me to being the “white man’s puppet.” But if that’s how you get down…

    By the way, I wasn’t expressing surprise that MJ did what he did. I was in North Carolina working when he made that assinine statement about why he didn’t support a multicultural center. But, of course, I’m disappointed because few black athletes attain the position he has and it’s even more disappointing to see LeBron and Tiger Woods follow the Jordan marketing plan to a T. (I included LeBron in this because of how he attacked Stephon Marbury’s shoe line)

    Anyway, KD, I know I’ll always be your favorite sellout. You redeemed yourself slightly with the MJB comment.

  143. Jay Goober Says:

    You know what I got sick of reading this debate, because to me their ain’t no debate. I’m standing up for my brothers period, we ain’t got a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. We’ve been abused, used, attacked, and smeared and I’m saying enough.

    You folks want to keep defending the status quo, the mainstream media, the Rupert Murdoch’s of the world. Go right the F on. The thing I got going for me is I’m going to tell it how I feel, how I truly feel, I got the truth! What y’all got the approval of the you know who? I’ll take the truth every day of the week, that’s why I can sit up here and get the better of a person, who is ten times the writer I am, but sits on a stack of mainstream media bullshit!

    Debate is over, pick a side, I’m with both Vicks, Marbury, Zique, Pacman, Barry, Terrell, and Randy that’s the side i’m on, you side with whoever you want! I’m sure your boy Ecko could use the support, with all his bullshit!


  144. oh madre de dios. 143 comments already, and this is the first time I lost my temper.

    Jay I respect you brother. I honestly do. But come on. i don’t think the people who were trying to defend Jemele were trying to stand up for Rupert Murdoch. I wasn’t standing up for Rupert Murdoch I know that much. But let me ask you a question: What would you have Jemele Hill write exactly?

    When she reads the news, and sees something you don’t see or finds something offensive where you don’t, is she supposed to not express what she sees and finds because it will make you angry? If she doesn’t like Stephon Marbury (who admitted in open court that he took advantage of a drunk intern in his trunk), or Marcus Vick (who was convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a minor), must she never bring it up without talking about Steve Garvey first? Is that what you would want? A game of equivalency?

    I have read every comment you and KD have ever posted. And while I respect your passion I don’t get what your solution is. Maybe you’ve mentioned it and I’ve missed it. Could you maybe mention it again?

  145. Temple 3,
    Brilliant post….truly.

  146. Jay Goober,
    As usual…you just bring it straight with no chaser…LOL!!

  147. Kevdog, you wrote:
    “The black conservative seems obsessed with seeming objective to white America”……………that’s a syndrome that’s doesn’t just lie in conservatism….its, as T3 called them “the strivers”. Strivers are obsessed with how they are perceived and will pull off the moves of a circus contortionist to become damn near colorless to gain that false perception of “acceptance”.

  148. GrandNubian Says:


    – Keep reppin’ & presentin’ (ATL)

    @SportsDiva & origin

    – Don’t forget about Bret Favre and his pill poppin’ (pain killers). That is NEVER mentioned in the media.


    – Excellent commentary my brother.


    – An old school “RIGHT ON!” (and a black fist) to you, my brother!


  149. Grandnubian,
    Can you tell me what happened in Pat Kerney’s house?

  150. Thanks Jemele for coming on a doing the interview with Mizzo.

    Some might not of had the courage to come on judging by some of the post. We all agree that the MSM is overwhelmingly biased. Jemele is a talented writer. I don’t think that we agree on her opinion of Whitlock. I give you that, but to make her responsible for the problems in the media is unreasonable. At what point do we as black people hold the athletes responsible. I’m sure some of the writers on here have had their difficulty getting interviews with some of these cats. They run straight to ESPN and are at their beck and call and won’t give a young black writer the time of day. I defend those who deserve defending. When you do business with the devil he owns your soul. The modern athlete is doing just that. When the devil lies, cheats, steals and turns on you. You have gotten just what you deserve. With all the minority millionaire ball players out there, They should have their own network by now. Same as always the crabs in the basket syndrome rears it’s ugly head. Instead of coming together to support one another we separate and attack each other. When you play with dogs you will get up with fleas and that’s not Ms. Hill’s fault.

  151. GrandNubian Says:


    Unfortunately, I can’t answer that question, beloved.

    All I know is that me & Ryan Stewart have been asking that question for months. It appears that no one wants to answer that question. 😉

  152. Ms. Hill,

    I think you’re a good writer, but I think that you (and most of the other prominent black sports writers) fall down on the job in the same way: the mainstream sports media frame stories in a certain way, and you all don’t do anything to challenge that framing. It’s not a matter of “defending” black athletes. Even when y’all come to the defense of black athletes, you’re still working inside of illegitimate frames. You have to step outside of them. Examine the frames themselves, and ask if they’re legitimate.

    Here’s a good example. This column you wrote on Isiah Thomas. You make the same error that the rest of the mainstream media did, by claiming that Thomas implied that it was okay for a black man to call a black woman a bitch. But if you read the deposition, and the later court testimony, in both cases he made it a point to say it was unacceptable for anyone to use that word. Why else would Vivian Stringer and Al Sharpton apologize to Thomas after first condemning him?

    Now, I’ll just assume that you were going by the various published reports, and didn’t read the actual transcripts. But it’s no accident that the story was framed as “Isiah says it’s okay for black men to call black women bitches,” when he clearly said the opposite from the beginning.

    As COSELLOUT said, “Before any sexual harassment trials were ever concluded, the collective mainstream sports media emphatically handed in its verdict of Isiah Thomas’ performance as Knicks President and General Manager. Isiah’s plea to the MSM to “tell the whole story” has never been delivered. When it comes to Thomas and the past 3.5 years, the media has lied outright, misled, omitted, ignored, and told half-truths so often and for so long that “Isiah as the terrible GM” became gospel. ”

    So every story on Thomas in the mainstream sports media operates inside within that frame. And instead of challenging that frame, you and other prominent black sports writers go along with it, and it’s up to sites like COSELLOUT and TSF to supply the whole story.

  153. Couldn’t agree more David.

  154. One of the best comment sections ever. I enjoyed every post, particularly Temple’s.

    While I have most of the same problems as other people with what Ms. Hill wrote, I think some of the rhetoric directed at her crossed the line. I don’t have any problem with how people talk about Whitlock most of the time because he has taken the debate in that direction with some of his own comments in columns. But, I don’t think some of the comments directed at Ms. Hill should have been presented in the way they were. While I agree with the sentiments, the presentation was too harsh for me.

    That said, I think it is an ongoing personal battle to determine when and where you draw your line in the sand. I think we all have agreed that the media is biased, black athletes get a bad rap, the black community needs to come together and help each other more and that Ralph Wiley was outstanding.

    Hopefully, that common ground will bridge the gap between the diparate opinions on this board. After all, it’s not uncommon for black people with great ideas to disagree. Martin and Malcolm did for a long, long time.

  155. David is completely correct about the Isiah frame. Just like McNabb’s comments were framed and nobody bothered to get the full transcript before forming their opinions.

  156. I agree Allen. Instead of finding all that we don’t like about each other how about focusing on the spots where we do agree, and just agreeing to disagree on certain things? If every point where I might be separate from say…. Sankofa….. is a cause for me and him to start baring teeth than we’ll never get anywhere. Be too busy thinking to be too busy arguing. That’s the motto I live by.

  157. Jay Goober Says:

    Miranda thanks,

    Okori how would I have Jemele write, my favorite writers right now are
    1. D.K. Wilson he’s linked off this page, used to write here.

    Honorable mentions the starting five, Dave Zirin, … read their work it’s awesome. D.K in particular is, a person whom, I believe to be the best journalist in America period!


  158. TheLastPoet Says:

    Ms Hill,

    I keep saying you just don’t get it, and you keep on proving me right!

    Listen, do you honestly think anyone (outside of my man Jay Goober) is actually asking you to defend these black athletes?

    Do you honestly think that anyone is asking for “get-back” or for you to mention whitefolk in the same breath as blackfolk? These are examples that commenters are using to demonstrate how skewed the game is against us. That’s all.

    But these reactionary replies from you are, at the very least, beyond insulting, and at most, intellectually dishonest. What exactly are you reading here?

    Doesn’t it bother you that many thoughtful, intelligent, Black women and men – the likes of whom you yourself claim to be – have a major major problem with the subject and tenor of your work? Shouldn’t the concerns of people who would otherwise be your intellectual peers – people who would love to embrace you – be a cause for alarm?


    Well then you’re a fool. If you’re not for people who look like you, whose mother and father look like your mother and father, who share a unique history and general experience with you, and who care about what happens to you – even from afar – then we can’t help you.

    If we’re hard on you its because you’re our representative in the mainstream. You’ve clearly demonstrated that you’ve got the tools and the talent, or else you wouldn’t be there. But you’re dropping the ball, and we won’t have it. Not when we know that you can do better, and not when we know that we deserve better.

    Look at Wiley, who criticised Black athletes often, but he was beloved, as David pointed out above. Look at Malcolm who did the same for Black communities, as T3 pointed out. Now look at you. If you’re beloved at all, its by the same bigots, latent racists, and self-haters whom you claim to be working against! Doesn’t that bother you? If you could change that in order to receive the kind of support that Vick receives from people like Miranda and Sportsdiva – people who have continuously recognized the crimes that Vick committed, but people who are nonetheless interested in fairness, dignity and self-respect, autonomy, democracy, and above all the mental and physical health of our people – wouldn’t you make the necessary changes? Every nuance of your comments here seem to say , “no you wouldn’t change a thing.” You’d rather take those dollars and run. But say you DID want to change. Well, first you’ve got to HEAR what people are saying here. Save the knee-jerk reactions for your colleagues at Cold Pizza, or wherever the hell it is you earn your money(no, all of America doesn’t watch that foolishness, just like all of America doesn’t think Barry Bonds cheated!).

    Listen, Richard Wright said we’ve basically got three kinds of Black people:

    1. we’ve got the rebels who look racism, injustice, and inequality in the eye and fight it tooth and nail til they’re either dead, murdered, lynched, assassinated, poisoned, railroaded, blacklisted, or otherwise allowed to die. Wright said he couldn’t be that kind of Black person because he didn’t want to die.
    2. we’ve got the genial slaves who avoid so much as eye-contact with their white masters, or the affranchised slaves (that Bill Rhoden wrote about) who are paid handsomely by the master to keep quiet. Wright said he couldn’t be that kind of person because he had too much self-respect.
    3. we’ve got the Blacks who can fit in neither category, but instead turn against other Blacks to express their resentment at having been excluded, committing crimes of proximity or what the media refers to as “black on black crime.” Wright said he couldn’t be that kind of person because his heart was not that cold.

    That’s it, though. So Wright was forced to dive inward and seek a fourth way, which is what I think any thinking Black person ought to do. The question then becomes: what are YOU doing? I’m sick of playing these games with you. Please get it together because, like I’ve said three times now, WE DESERVE BETTER! Continue reading, writing, and by all means put your best foot forward.

    Your works on Gibson and Kobe notwithstanding, why continue your present policy of slashing and burning and joining the national crusade against anything Black, (mostly) male, and rich? As David says above, just because you find yourself within the mainstream framework, that doesn’t mean you’ve got to write as if that’s the only model available to you. You’ve got alternative models here, at D-Wil’s site, at Modi’s site, Sankofa’s, Jay Goober’s, and many more I’m sure – indeed the numbers continue to swell. And so you’ve got honest, intelligent people, the kind of people you claim to be like, who are waiting for you and who will support you.

    Does that mean anything to you?

    On the other hand, if you do not have the unique ability and, equally important, the DESIRE to change the game, if instead this IS just a game in which you’ll play as long as you can and collect as much money as you can before you’re forced out, then Kevdog is right. You ARE a sellout, no matter how Black is your soul, or how much Trane you dig.

    That’s it. I’m done. Have a good time on Cold Pizza calling us niggers, or thugs, or whatever the code word is nowadays.

    Keep jumpin for your freedom, honey. Someday, you’ll get it!

  159. I’m new to this site and I gotta say that I find some of the comments harsh and way over critical of Jemele. Some were on point, it’s just the method used to get your message heard. Would you rather Mizzo not do these? We as people need to stop this bullshit. This ain’t the hip hop playing club that gets shut down. TSF is providing a service by attaining interviews (Scoop and LeBatard are my favorite) with some of the top writers in the industry. I’ve read Whitlock’s interview and other mainstream writers on TBL and Scoop Jackson’s on NOI’s blog, but nobody comes close to the interviews done here. This shit is compelling and the conversations afterward are some of the most intelligent and knowledgeable I’ve read online. Mizzo, keep doing what you do brotha. Kick me an email. I have someone I want you to talk to.

  160. I like Dave. I read Dave religiously. But did you have a problem with the way he went after Isiah?

  161. GrownAss man Says:

    Let me say that this comments section is truly blessed with some thoughtful and bright people. I probably should have stepped my game up a bit and taken more time in some of my posts; many of you really challenged me and gave me a moment to pause on my beliefs. Best believe, they’re still intact (like many here, I’m always right:)). Nonetheless, it’s a testament to some of this forum’s thinkers that my bullheaded a$$ at least reflected on the fact. THAT SAID,

    KevDog, you’re weak. Call me whatever you want. If you think some internet badass scares me intellectually or otherwise, think again. I get it, this is your kingdom. You post here (and other places in which no one, whitey or otherwise, challenges you or calls you out. Mostly because they all agree with you). But to call Ms. Hill “little girl?” Well, to paraphrase Chris Rock, “Who the F is YOU?!”

    You know what, I may have thorwn a strawman in a post or two and I may have been selective in my arguements (I know critiquing one’s own work is a tough task, but have you read your own posts?). I’m at work, sneaking in these posts and thus, they might not be airtight, my bad. I’m not the intellectual giant you are, my bad. I haven’t achieved internet message board cult-hero status yet, my bad.

    But you know what is also a tactic of those who lack the ammunition to prove what they really want to say? Insulting the person, FROM THE GET GO, and THEN attack their arguement. That’s pretty sneaky sis….OH YES.. AND a great way to make your point (my favorite technique in Jr. High debate squad).

    You’ve got a forum in which the VAST majority of the readers and posters agree with you. Others are in a word, sycophants. So it’s easy belittle Ms. Hill and call me and anyone else who disagrees with you unintelligent or a Tom. THAT’S brave.

    I could hear the applause in my head as I read your post. Well done KevDog. You’re a badass, no doubt. A badass with no sense of irony or self-awareness. Pardon me if I don’t stand back in awe of all you’ve achieved and all of the self-proclaimed years of wisdom you’ve accumulated and apparently Ms. Hill lacks (Of course, if you’re that old and still refer to yourself as KevDog….).

    Take your “little girl” comment, change it to “boy” and then reflect on how much of a BAAADDDD MAN you’d become if whitey called you “boy” in a response to on of your nuggets of wisdom. Sound fair? Sound intellectually honest? Sound like a man worthy of respect?

    Maybe to those in your fan club, but I see through it. But keep at it KevDog, cause you’re changing the system and you’re changing the way America thinks.

    The fact that none of you called him out on this dissapoints, but then again I also have trouble objectively evaluating what my heros write.

    Definition of Irony: A grown woman gets called “little girl” by someone who as it turns out is a very very little man.

    (For what it’s worth: I have to connections to Ms. Hill)

  162. ummm…. well then. this could be fun.

  163. I’ve been sitting on my hands this entire time because I do not want to devalue the conversation moderating. Just keep real rap my people.

    Chill with the insults and keep it progressive at every turn.

    Dat Dude should be up around 6 tonight.

    Chuck D’s gonna give us a word or ten later this week or some time shortly thereafter. Email me your questions and I’ll definitely kick him a couple.

  164. Damn…I have to say this. Who is going to give Jemele some props for facing the fire beyond the Bush?

  165. GrownAss man Says:

    No connections to Ms. Hill.

    First question for Chuck D: How does he feel about Flavsploitation and all of its lovely spinoffs. PE remains the greatest rap group ever, but does he feel his or the group’s legacy is tarnished at all by the connection?

    Sorry, if he’s answered this already

    Oh, and sorry if my post got personal. I suppose I’m weak too.

  166. Damn! I’m gonna miss that M. Wiley interview. Got to beat back the gut tonight.

    Have you ever thought of a TSF newsletter? That way, cats who can’t read the blog at work or for other reasons can still keep up with true sports.

  167. It’s in the works as more writers come on Okori.

    Chuck is not going to slam Flav in any way. Would you slam your brother?

    All he’s going to say is Flava Flav for goodness sakes!

    Here’s the link to the first part of the interview.

  168. oh sweet. 🙂

  169. Whats your e-mail address brother. I have a lot of questions for the Great Chuck D.

    “Don’t believe the Hype” was said in 88 by the great Chuck D
    Now they’re trying to F me . . “

  170. It’s on the about page brotha man.

  171. any reaction on the Pacman Jones suspension not being lifted?

  172. No offense but did you really expect it to? I know I didn’t and neither should anyone else. It’s not news to me.

  173. none taken boss. I was just curious as to whether or not people thought it to be a miscarriage of justice.

  174. Some things you have to expect. It would have been a shock if he was reinstated beforehand.

  175. I don’t think the wrestling thing helped much.

  176. I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Pundits will trot that out as an excuse.

  177. or… maybe Adam didn’t do the other things that he was asked to do?

  178. You mean like tap dance for massa’s wife while in chains?

  179. maybe that’s what it was. maybe it was no strip clubs, no name on police blotters. but i agree with Jemele on this: I feel no great comfort in defending Pacman.

    But I would like to ask when was the last time we brought up the proto-pacman, Todd Marinovich?

  180. Greg aka 'Farrod' Says:


    Well put.

  181. JG

    At this point, I’m fully with you. Given their history, animosity towards us, lack of empathy, consistant use of double standards and just generaly meanness of tone towards, I’ll brook absolutely no criticism by MSM of black athletes. They’ve lost any legitimacy IMO, to make any judgement whatsever.

    Ms. Hill


    I wasn’t insulting you by calling you “little girl,” I was patronizing you. There is a difference.

    It has been a long road towards my starting to insult as I do. Frankly, I don’t like to peddle in name-calling. But you’re right, I have grown bitter for all the reasons I’ve mentioned.

    At this point in time, I see a MSM landscape dominated by white people who treat black people with disdain and complete lack of empathy and black people who play their lackey in order to get on TV or spend an afternoon with the house niggas like Michael Jordan. Yeah, I’ve decided to fight fire with fire.

    When the MSM stops their attacks on us, or maybe when YOU write the column calling out white America specifically, by name, I’ll reconsider.

    I suspect I’m safe for awhile.


  182. sigh…… can’t we all just get along?

  183. KevDog:

    Maybe if you weren’t so insulting to Ms. Hill she’d deal with you on a more even playing field. Lord knows if anyone called me a Little Boy, a House Nigga, and endorse the shooting of one of my peers, I certainly wouldn’t want to have anything to do with you. To quote Michael Douglas from the American President: “You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.”

  184. Okori

    You must be confused about who I am and what I desire.

  185. LastPoet
    “Do you honestly think that anyone is asking for “get-back” or for you to mention whitefolk in the same breath as blackfolk? These are examples that commenters are using to demonstrate how skewed the game is against us. That’s all.”


  186. what do you desire KD? EVeryone to just be like you? To think just like you? To spend all of their free time condemning White America? To have anyone who holds a contrary view from La Secta de KevDog to be condemned as a little boy or girl or a house Nigga? Is that it?

    I don’t agree with Jemele Hill on some things. But I respect that she comes in here and tries to defend her position. And so should you.

  187. Kevdog,
    Give it time…I’m sure an “open letter to middle-aged rich white folks who ignore their children who turn out to be drug dealers pushing their trade in the hood” is forthcoming….just be patient.

  188. F it if you can’t beat them join them.

    Yo Jemele tell your boys at ESPN I got this new book called “Black Folks Got Rabbit Blood.”

    I’m gonna tell yall just what OJ told Jim Brown back in the 70s. While you are being pro-black and broke I’m gonna be tap-dancing for them white folks and counting my money.

    Maybe me and Whitlock can go on CNN and debate which black athlete got the most rabbit blood in them.


    The sad part is even though I am laughing…….I’m really crying inside because if I actually released the book. Murdock would be on my door step with a contract.

    And Whitlock would calling it the greatest book ever written.

    Actually the way the media is we ain’t that far from a kneegrow writing some sh#$ like this.

  189. Okori

    Honestly, I believe answered your question before you even posted it And as to the rest of the above.

    Well, I don’t think you’re really in a position to debate me.

  190. GrownAss man Says:

    KevDog’s Journalism career……


    keep livin in your small insulated world where only those who agree with you live. Never leave, because whitey will never give you a fair shake. Keep telling yourself that your failures and lack of success are due to your principles and not due to your lack of talent or perspective. Keep telling yourself that those black writers who have succeeded have done so because they are sellouts and Toms.

    Take heart that you have a fan base that totally about 20 people.

    Stay strong brother. I understand, it’s called a DEFENSE MECHANISM.

  191. Mizzo
    Can we have the site number the posts?

    Exactly, thanks for seeing exactly my point. Everything I’ve written really comes down to what you just wrote. Too bad Ms. Hill won’t EVER write that article.

    So, so true.

    In the words of Q-Tip

    ” really cant say, I guess I laugh to keep from cryin.”

  192. Damn, lots of dick waving. Nobody on this board knows anything about anybody’s life besides the assumptions we’ve formed based on their comments, or the tidbits they’ve dropped in their convos.

    So, for anybody to assume anything about anyboy’s station in life is stupid. So that means assuming that they don’t care at all about black people, or that they are frustrated nobodies using the internet to vent is just stupid. Both viewpoints are really lacking.

    Anyway, I take what I can use, leave what’s of no use from every interaction.

  193. Miranda made a good comment. Open letters to all black people based on the actions of a couple black people on a sports website read mainly by white folks just seem to be a bad idea.

    I respect everybody’s right to live their lives and do what they want. But, it just doesn’t seem smart to be spreading that message where it’s being spread.

  194. GAM
    “keep livin in your small insulated world where only those who agree with you live. Never leave, because whitey will never give you a fair shake. Keep telling yourself that your failures and lack of success are due to your principles and not due to your lack of talent or perspective. Keep telling yourself that those black writers who have succeeded have done so because they are sellouts and Toms.”

    I’m pretty successful. In fact, I’m willing to bet that I make much more money than you, have a higher educational level than you and have graduated from much more acclaimed universities than you. Would you care to take the bet?

    I mean, you really should look before you leap Bruh.

  195. GrownAss man Says:

    yeah babe, let’s do it….Uhhh,


    Oh well, here goes: Harvard, BA Economics and Philosophy; Georgetown Law; Wharton MBA.

    Whatcha got?

  196. Top 10 Stanford School of medicine.

  197. GrownAss man Says:

    Actually, Only one of those Schools is correct, and only two of those degrees are real. But so what, as if bragging about degrees and salary on a message board proves ANYTHING…..

    Oh, and my dad can beat your dad up!

  198. GAM

    You’ve GOT to be kidding……

  199. GrownAss man Says:

    Congrats on your success. I MEAN THAT (provided you’re telling the truth;))

    I feel smaller by the second by engaging in this exchange.

    One question fam: what happens when you have white patients? HA!

  200. GrownAss man Says:

    Oh, and kidding about what? My degrees? Nope, I suppose you’ll make some clever remark about not being up to those schools, but yeah, Wharton and a certain washington school.

  201. Kevdog,
    Please ignore these interns from ESPN2…..

  202. Miranda

    Good point.

  203. GrownAss man Says:

    :)What’s your undergrad, I think I got you beat 🙂

  204. HAHA………….ESPN interns……………..LOL!!!

    Good one sista!!!!LOL!!!

  205. GAM


    I have a professional and ethical obligation to provide the best care, given the circumstances, that I can. I do my job well. Additionally, despite my fire-breathing persona here. I love helping people. Period.

    As to the just kidding part. It was in response to your writing a diatribe about my attitude growing from lack of professional success, and then sarcastically commenting on my willingness to post my actual success. Surely you can see the irony in that?

    As to Wharton. Nice work. Let’s hope you’re using your success to advance the good.

  206. Undergrad?

    You probably do have me beat. Dropped out of school at 16, couldn’t write a paragraph nor even add fractions, started at a local community college at 20 with the goal of attending medical school, everyone called me crazy, transfered to Occidental College and then on to Stanford.

  207. On the topic of framing stories. Check out this story about McNabb

    Now, how is this story framed. Anybody familiar with the media can see who is being set up as the good guy and the bad guy.

    and don’t get me started on the latest story that’s being discussed about Chris Henry. A parking attendant who won’t file a formal report makes an accusation and it’s a story? wow.

  208. Origin,
    yeah…..he’s gotta get those 12 hours, and we can see he was apprised of just who to step too…pretty tough assignment…but he slipped up with the “challenge to a dual” of the degrees……that’s just some straight up junior year foolishness.

  209. GrownAss man Says:

    Awww, let hug. See, now I feel bad.

    Actually, I really do. I take no pleasure in belittling a black man (despite what my post may have indicated). I still think that callin Jemele “little girl” was wack, and I bet you still have no love for about my thoughts on the matter, but shit, I realize that a place like this is supposed to be a haven from negativity, not a place to foster petty name calling and division (especially about someone I know NOTHING ABOUT. Hat tip to Allen).

    So honestly, apart from the bit about Jemele, my bad. I’m done with the negativity. It shouldn’t take a stanford degree to make me show you some love; and i feel bad about that too. I suppose passion brings out the best AND the worst.

    But big ups to KevDog the Doctor. But KevDog the sportwriter…..;)

  210. Kev I’m working on it brotha.

  211. Honestly folks besides the progressive discourse, do you think I had this in mind?

  212. Sportsdiva Says:

    Well, you did call it the ‘Kev Dog Special’. LOL!!!
    I think it will all be theraputic for us at some point.

  213. GrownAss man, Okori when was this about KevDog and not about writers like Jamele Hill and their inconsistancies when reporting on African people – warts and all.

    First you imply that we are defending these athletes based on their melanin content, then imply sisters Michelle, Miranda and SportsDiva of being cheerleaders, effectively dismissing their point of view as you say KevDog does Mrs. Hill.

    Harsh as my brother comes across I got his back, because I know were he is coming from. You, GrownAss man, on the other hand come up in here pissing and spitting from the jump, with no track record other than that, pissing and spitting.

    You say you ain’t afraid of KevDog? Nobody asked you to. But no one here, certainly no I, am intimidated by you or anyone who come up in here.

    And what the hell is this….?

    ” keep livin in your small insulated world where only those who agree with you live. Never leave, because whitey will never give you a fair shake. Keep telling yourself that your failures and lack of success are due to your principles and not due to your lack of talent or perspective. Keep telling yourself that those black writers who have succeeded have done so because they are sellouts and Toms.

    Take heart that you have a fan base that totally about 20 people.”

    Haven’t you heard? A fan base of 20, properly motivated and focused can tear the roof of this sucka!

    Mizzo..respect, I will hold back with respect to you and the rest of the family on here, but I am trying to figure out how the hell we went from spotlighting Jamele Hills inconsistancy, vis-a-vis MSM and African athletes, to where GrownAssMan has taken us.

    TSF family …”Blessed are those who struggle, oppression is worse than the grave, it’s better die a freeman, than to live your life a slave!”

  214. Ms. Hill, I like your writing and I don’t think you are a “Tom” but like others in the media, they really don’t want to be challenged on legitimate issues regarding their coverage of African- Americans in sports. My problem with the Vick saga and the media’s coverage and that of Coach Andy Reid is your station, PETA and many writers portrayed Micheal Vick like he was Pol Pot or the juntas in Sudan who are truly committing genocide against other human beings, I love dogs and a member of PETA in good standing but their using Vick as a scapegoat for dogfighting and racializing the issue is distrubing. in your comments section (mainly white men) blamed Vick and his mother along with Black Culture for his troubles, but when Reid who along with his wife totally irresponsible parents who allowed their sons to sell dope, steroids, and run amuck in Philly while coaching the football team and punishing T.O. in the way the media approved of but in the same breath they didn’t blame rap/rock music Reid and his Wife nor White Culture for their lack of ‘good parenting’ and when I challenged those white boys in the comments section on their hypocrisy they called me a ‘black racist’ and a NOI supporter.

    There is a bias in the media against African- Americans and Black Men in particular Ms. Hill and for reporters like yourself and Whitlock and others are quick to blame a music genre when they know it’s more complicated than saying an entire culture is responsible for bad sportsmanship, and grandstanding when ESPN celebrates violence along with the celebrations on Sports Center every night. Disney/ABC involvment in Hollywood records who also promotes Imus, Bob Grant and other ‘shock jocks along the worst elements of pop culture in American entertainment. Everytime I hear one of you reporters blame ‘hip- hop’ or ‘Thug Culture’ for someone’s personal behavior and sexism when the network double dip on both sides of socially bad behavior for massive profits but they racialize it to only include black ballplayers who are ungrateful bad sports, as if White, Asian, Latino and other ethnic groups honor the game ‘with respect’ and never cheat in their sports.

    Our problem is that we never see independent black voices on these shows who would challenge the white media, blacks like Whitlock and others (who is ducking Mizzo, Dwil and other indie Black journalists like the clap) who claim to be new civil rights leaders in the vein of King and Malcolm X. Jason Whitlock is a liar plain and simple, and when legitimate media sources and reporters like Dave Zirin catches him in these lies he plays the same race card he admonishes blacks not to play on the issues he writes about. Ms. Hill, if one of us on TSF got on that panel show about Vick It would be like Jack Nicholson going after Tom Cruise in the movie ‘A few Good Men’ but we would be saying to the same things we say on this blog to the MSM, ESPN,PETA, White America , Terrence Moore and those who are practicing media bias against African- Americans.


  215. Wow just Wow brotha Allen.

    My boy Mcnabb is gonna get electronically lynched over the season.

    These folks in the media been waiting for this day since Mcnabb first became the face of the league.

    After Mcnabb I guess they can focus totally of Vince then.

  216. Yes I did diva…nothing wrong with me wanting civility 😉

    Kevin Kolb is a rookie with no clue.

    Two words for the bloodletting of McNabb:

    Job security.

  217. Sportsdiva Says:

    You know what…….I really feel in my heart of hearts, the same heart where redemption for Vick lies (oh, I couldn’t help myself LOL), that Jemele is going to look back in 20 years (when she’s like a veteran writer, with a strong legacy, schooling a young crop of new writers) and appreciate this dialogue. Not to appreciate it from a right or wrong standpoint, no, that would imply that she never changed frames at all (and I think we all do throughout life), but appreciate it for the soul and brain blessing that it is. No school in the world, or American institute in particular can provide this and it’s FREE (Thanks Mizzo!!!) as it should be.

    David, you broke it down with the ‘framing’ angle. Awesome!

    Miranda, I love your freakin’ wit chica!! (I’ll be back to the syndicate tomorrow LOL)

    I appreciate ALL of the insight and humanity here, especially the regulars who have given me so much wisdom, so many things to think about and finally, have given me enough strength to deal with the disgusting and blood boiling racism directed towards the media entity I work for during the Vick saga. It broke me down on several occassions and D-wil, KevDog, Miranda, T3, Sankofa, Last Poet, Grand Nubian, Jay Goober and MODI kept me sane and strong. I’m sure there are some I forgot. 🙂

    And for the newbies they didn’t and don’t always agree; they come with differing perspectives and I for one…love the potpourri.

    Sankofa, I always love hearing that quote. Always.

    Jemele, thanks for being a part of this important dialogue. And thanks for caring enough to return.

  218. Sportsdiva Says:

    Mizzo, I’m with ya, just a joke.

  219. Sportsdiva Says:

    So you mean to tell me that we’ll have McNabb to discuss and not Reid now? (sarcasm alert) Aha, very cool.

    Wait…let me see if this piece was written before Reid’s mini-mobsters got caught up and ‘drug emporium’ was revealed to the world…..


    Okay, surely he couches McNabb’s comments with something about Reid’s situation….anything y’all, did I miss it??

    So in discussing why the Iggles are terrible, you get the obligatory, day after day-off comments from the QB and others and you write your story…and Donovan expresses denials about the losses being totally on him and there is NO discussion about the coaches drama???

    I am open to being wrong and I will re-read it……….

  220. Sports Diva,

    No, thank you. I love it when my sistas hold it down. It’s the best thing in the world for me to see you, Miranda and Michelle keep anyone in check who graces the TSF dream scene.

    I learn from you…the soulful feminine wisdom that flows from each of you is the loveliest of truth.

    I too see the future analogy you presented and it’s the reason why I do any of these interviews. We do deserve better and trust when these writers speak, they’ll get smacked upside the head with that TSF Nat Turner lick I reference all the time.

    We just got to make sure they won’t be afraid of the dark…

  221. Sportsdiva Says:

    Oh my bad, I was referring to the SI story Allen linked above.

    Yo, I didn’t even like the title of that piece.

  222. KevDog,

    Wow, your story is moving. Congratulations on all the hard work. Being a nurse myself, I have much respect for doctors. Outside of being in school and work, I can’t say that I’ve ever been in the company of such brilliant people. The arguments on both sides are strong and so eloquently stated.

    Again thank you all. Not only am I learning a lot here, but I’m also very entertained. Thanks Mizzo, Jemele and KevDog for being the inspiration behind the interview that has us all thinking.

  223. ummm….. I was gone. what did I miss?

  224. sorry for losing my temper KD. i really have to remember to not debate people when working on closing cases.

    Plus I took a few kids with me to the gym to try and make sure that they don’t follow the same road some of their friends are on. the gym owner knows me so he lets the kids go on the treadmills and the bikes.

  225. Jay Goober Says:


    I can take Zirin’s criticism of Zique, no problem. Why, because I know he’s honest in writing it, he’s earned that with me. The rest of the media can go somewhere hot.

    Speaking of Mike Vick, i bet that will be the last time he is found guilty of “conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce to aid in illegal gambling and to sponsor a dog in animal fighting”, if that charge doesn’t get you to thinking just how damn innocent Mike Vick was, you are not ever going to think!

    My 2 cents.

    Kevdog I’m with you 100%, they spit in T.O.’s face, they spit in my face, NO MORE NONSENSE! FUC THEM!!! Honestly!

  226. I think Vick was innocent. and small point: isn’t it Zeke?

  227. Miranda:

    “Give it time…I’m sure an “open letter to middle-aged rich white folks who ignore their children who turn out to be drug dealers pushing their trade in the hood” is forthcoming….just be patient.”

    If I wasn’t already married…

  228. It’s been frenetic.

    A few thoughts…to Ms. Hill and the group…

    1) There is some considerable history here. It may be time consuming, but I believe it would be beneficial for newer readers to go back and read some of the original posts from KevDog and LastPoet. I understand there is some question about the capacity of the site to track these posts, but Google is surprisingly effective.

    2) There will always be considerable disagreements between Black folk about the resolution of our condition. In some respects that is fine and it is beneficial. In others, it is disastrous. I find that much of our confusion is attributable to two factors: 1) violence and misinformation from white-controlled institutions (including the media and schools); 2) historic leadership from spiritual leaders lacking an empirical approach to institution building and problem solving. Is it any wonder that many our greatest institution builders (those who didn’t rely on the sale of “After Life Insurance”) had solid backgrounds in empirical sciences. I won’t provide a laundry list – but consider the legacies of Ella Baker and Dorothy Height.

    It is my sincere hope that we can bring a measure of critical objectivity to some of these discussions. I don’t agree with all of the criticisms leveled against Ms. Hill – but, in the main, I am crystal clear that the LastPoet and KevDog are closer to truth than not. I am convinced not because I believe Ms. Hill has a callous disregard for Black folks. I don’t believe that at all. I think (that’s all I have) she is a talented young woman who is trying to find her way across rugged terrain – and who may not have “a Rabbi.”

    The term “having a Rabbi” refers colloquially to someone in an organization that has your back (like a guardian angel/consigliere) and directs the path of your career. Oddly enough, the original Rabbi in the Greek tradition was Athena who was modeled after Auset (Isis). I doubt that Ms. Hill has the benefit of many Auset’s roaming the corridors of ESPN – but the paradigm for journalistic excellence has already been mapped.

    Charlayne Hunter Gault
    Gwen Ifill
    Barbara Reynolds

    Barbara Reynolds was an amazing writer for USA Today. If you have any interest in what journalistic integrity and service to Africans looks like, Ms. Reynolds put down the paradigm. Ms. Gault has done the same thing. They were serious women with impeccable records…they were not frivolous…they never pandered…and they never decontextualized the evil that men do…and I don’t believe they’ve had a moment’s doubt about the need to be of service to those of us torn from our homeland and torn from one another.

    I heard a question to the effect of “What should I write?” I think that’s beautiful – if it’s sincere (certainly the return visits demonstrate sincerity). It springs from a place of humility and opportunity; of grace and redemption – for all of us. I want to encourage Ms. Hill to closely acquaint herself with the life and times of Ms. Barbara Reynolds…and as a study in contrast, take a look at the life and times of Leanita McClain. And when you get to Ms. McClain, dig deep. Don’t simply read the article “How Chicago Taught Me To Hate Whites.” Call Clarence Page. Call Haki Madhubuti. Do the work to get behind the front page.

    After you’ve done that work, ask yourself the simply question: “Of what value is my work to my people?”

    If at the end of that sojourn you still require guidance on what it is that you should write, we should have a wonderful conversation. I cannot assume you are not already familiar with the stories of these women. I know you would have only come by them accidentally in school – after all, our enemies schools do not instruct us on the manner in which our she-roes have been violated. I hope you take up this challenge because none of us is served by thinking we walk alone.

  229. Temple….absolutely beautiful.

  230. After the rash of insults that infested the middle of the comments, redeemed in the end. Good job coming back to the point and ending the internet forum flexing.

    Appreciate you people dropping things that interest me enough to check out in more depth. Except for Sankofa and his radical terrorism (you know I’m kidding, I hope.) and those clubs I refuse to name, because I don’t want any other poor sucker googling them at work.

  231. i agree GMP. this is why I come here so often. Do I agree with everyone on here? No. But I do know that everyone here comes at their positions from true belief, and that is all that I can ask.

  232. TheLastPoet Says:


    You bring the message from on high, my brother. You’re a gift to us.

    I apologize if my tone was inconsistent with my message. I don’t know Ms Hill and I suspect I’ll never meet her, but I want the best for her. That’s love. And if that wasn’t clear before, well then it is now.


  233. Higher consciousness in the end must prevail and Sonum Bonum, “the greater good” should be the goal. Temple3…blessed.

    GMP…dude! I am doing Yoga and Meditation, the theropy is coming along!

    Mrs. Hill if nothing but one thing, thank you for stepping forward in the face of family criticisim. The courage to do that should be your base.

    Peace All!

  234. I was just about to post the link Miranda. A sista beats me to it again.

  235. LOL!!

  236. GrownAss man Says:

    Ha, me too. Clearly he’s been reading this blog. I think he’s spot on btw. (though I am sure the Jena 6 comments will draw your ire)

  237. GrownAss man Says:

    Honest question for those who post here: Can that Whitlock column be the work of someone who’s out to please whitey? Have you read some of the comments by readers below it? You may think he’s wrong or damaged, but I think he speaks from what he believes. That counts for something, no?

  238. You mean as far as the patronizing Hip Hop references? 🙂

  239. I seriously doubt if dude has seen either movie.

  240. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut occasionally? isn’t that the saying?

    Actually, if you’d read any of the previous posts here Grown, you’d be hard pressed to find a commenter that didn’t believe the kids in the Jena case needed to be punished, it was the severity of punishment that got everyone pissed. I don’t think I ever read anyone advocate the 6 on 1 beat down, but the way Whitlock phrased it will probably piss some people off.

  241. Sportsdiva Says:

    And I seriously believe he listens to hip-hop everyday, you know kinda like Sen. Larry Craig hates ‘gays’. LOL

  242. Yeah he’s probably bumpin Ice, Ice Baby and Jump Around. Kicking it with his peeps.

  243. Mizzo,


  244. LoL didn’t see that Diva.

  245. Sweet Jones Says:

    Whitlock says: “He needs to talk with Garrett Reid about how kids, especially kids with fathers who spend too much time away from their families, get swept up in pop culture’s glorification of drug dealers and criminals.”

    So, ‘pop culture’ glorifies drug dealers and criminals too? Doesn’t that kinda of blow a hole in his ‘Hip Hop as Unique Evil’ mantra he’s been pushing for the last year?

    Where is the D.R.O.P. Squad when you need them?

  246. GrownAss man Says:

    I was just talking about the incendiary lanuage re: the Jena 6. I don’t profess to know how anyone here fells about the situation. Blind squirrel or not, I think he’s got it right. But then again, that’s not too controversial of a stance round here

    Come on, you know Whitlock’s got the X-Clan bumpin’ right now.

  247. Sweet Jones Says:


    Brother J and Prof X’s ghost would reach out the speaker and ‘Black Boot Stomp’ Whitlock for his antics.


  248. GrownAss man Says:

    Sweet Jones:

    Maybe he used “pop culture” here because, and I am using his thoughts, black youth are much more culturally connected to hip-hop than your average white kid. I don’t know how many black kids are inspired by Marilyn manson or watching Donnie darko .

    I know the sales #’s of hip-hop may suggest otherwise, but just a thought. I mean, that is his theory, that hip-hop (in it’s sad present form) is corrupting black youth.

  249. GrownAss man Says:

    92 all over again. The RED, the BLACK, and the GREEN.

    Remember when you actually could hear a PE, X-clan, and BDP song in the same day on the radio? Whomever’s to blame, those days are gone. Now it’s Ay bay bay and fiddy all day long.

    GAM IS OLD 😦

  250. I swear GAM is Whitlock.

    Anyway big deal whoop dee dooo. Unicron finally got one right.

    O.K…..O.K. so now I don’t hate him with all my heart only 99.9% now.

  251. Blame Viacom, Clear Channel, Corporate America and the media.

    Also GAM they are still making CDs and videos.

    When has the media or corporate america ever not destroyed an artform.
    I always do the opposite that the media says if they say ths is cool I do the opposite.

    They say look left I look right. They say this is healthy I don’t eat it.

    X-clan new Video

    KRS-ONE new Video

  252. Origin I wouldn’t doubt it.

    Vaaaaaaaanglorious. This is protected by The Red, The Black and The Green….With a key!…Sisssssssssy

  253. Sweet Jones,
    I keep hoping Ving Rhames and Vonde Curtis Hall just appear from nowhere and start snatching up folks and throwing them in that van.

  254. Man do you know how many “brothas” would be snatched up?

  255. Sportsdiva Says:

    No doubt!!! LOL

  256. over at fox sports jason whitlock `s column on andy reid is being attacked by racist posters.

  257. I read the piece by Whitlock today… the 6 black cowards reference does nothing to darken ( which is a good thing) his image in my eyes. GAM, sho’ nuff he’s been stealing from this blog of knowledge.

    In the end tho’, a dog will still snif ass, and Whitlock will still be a “race” baiting pimp.

  258. Sankofa,


  259. Couldn’t agree more Sankofa………and yes bcw.

    Thes are the same folks who love his articles on black athletes yet all of a sudden once the gun is pointed at them they are upset.

    They are no more then cannibals eating their own.

    I look at the comments and laugh…..whitlock is getting his just desert from the cannibals.

  260. Thanks all.

    Whitlock is right to go after Reid, the media and the general public on this issue. There will come a point in time when my people – my beloved – will realize that moralizing is all a game. He’s currying favor so that he can pad his coffers in the dead of winter when the MLB list comes out – when Kobe is traded – when the next Bengal is arrested. That does not make him wrong here. He’s right as rain – but, he’s still Jason with the white mask…and I was taught never to trust a Black man in a white mask – unless his name was Fuhr.

    If you play the moralizing game, you will always be searching for the perfect Negro, the perfect leader, the perfect spouse, the perfect neighborhood, the perfect this and that…and you will always be dissatisfied, you will always be isolated and you will always be disorganized and powerless. None of us are perfect and we cannot solve our problems by making perfection a prerequisite for collaboration.

    The game is to force us to choose amongst one another…Choose King! No! Choose Malcolm. Choose West Coast! No, no! Choose East Coast. Choose Stephon! No, choose A.I. Choose Shaq – no, no, no! Choose Kobe. Choose nigger, choose! Lose, nigger lose.

    Embrace to save the race. Choose at your own peril understand the game that is being played and you have a chance to win. Misunderstand the rules and we’ll pick up your withered body, fragile psyche, shattered will, and OF COURSE, your depleted bank account at the end of the game. It’s a game…it’s a game…it’s a game. Stop playing.

  261. wow. nice work T3.

    However. I am going to make one choice: I choose both.

  262. Sweet Jones Says:

    Temple3 says: “…and I was taught never to trust a Black man in a white mask – unless his name was Fuhr.”

    ROFLMBAO!! ‘CoCo’ was the best to ever do it. Met him when he was a STL Blue.

    Great stuff, Temple3. There are few brothas out here still checking that sport.

  263. I never imagined I would get into a hockey argument on TSF. But Patrick Roy would like a word. Vladislav Tretiak for that matter.

  264. Sweet Jones Says:

    They played defense in front of Roy. Fuhr spent his prime facing odd man rushes as most of the Edmonton defenders (Coffey, etc) jumped into play in the offensive zone.

    I acknowledge my own bias in this selectin though. (-:

  265. I like Roy for one reason: When the Avs were playing my beloved ‘Hawks in the Playoffs Jeremy Roenick was talking mess. Roy just said this: “I’m sorry. My ears are stuffed with my Stanley Cup rings.”

  266. Bernie Parent (Philadelphia) and Ken Dryden (Montreal) in their day would put Roy and Tretiak to shame. I always liked & admired Grant Fuhr, although growing up I wanted to be the first black goalie.

  267. “If you play the moralizing game, you will always be searching for the perfect Negro, the perfect leader, the perfect spouse, the perfect neighborhood, the perfect this and that…and you will always be dissatisfied, you will always be isolated and you will always be disorganized and powerless. None of us are perfect and we cannot solve our problems by making perfection a prerequisite for collaboration.”

    T3…… didn’t say that loud enough…a whole LOTTA ears need to hear those words.

  268. This is a good interview and all, and it’s clear Hill is pretty smart. I like a lot of what she has to say here. But the fact remains that she’s an awful writer a lot of the time. Little or no coherency; baseless accusations; complete and total lack of support for her points.

    Still, I appreciate the interview. Good job.

  269. That Ruckus clip is a riot.

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