This Is The Difference Between Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock

billcosby.jpg
Like the Might Mos spit in Know That: I burn through your argument with action!

Being from the Philly area, I cringe when folks criticize Mr. Cosby. I get confused (temporarily) and wonder, “What the hell are people talking about? Bill Cosby is probably in the ‘hood right now! What are these people doing to help others instead of watching the damn TV and judging folk?”

I covered one of the seven events Mr. Cosby has given his time to this year and spoke to him regarding crime in the streets of Philadelphia. The questions were posed during a press conference, but Mr. Cosby spoke to me specifically for about 10 minutes even with local and national media present. Do not misunderstand the point I’m trying to make here. I’m not tooting my own horn. Most of the other media members present were not Black people. They were there just to get a story. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were doing their “jobs”, but most of the reports had a negative spin. I asked him questions the ‘hood would ask and I’m honored he thought my questions were important enough to answer.

This man cares. Trust me, folks in Philly know.

Courtesy of Nah Right

I’ll have that post on Christmas Day.

Chuck D’s interview tentatively will be posted Christmas Eve. Between those mighty gulps of egg nog, check it out. I promise it’s gonna be a doooozy.

194 Responses to “This Is The Difference Between Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock”

  1. GrandNubian Says:

    Maybe Bill Cosby cares, maybe he doesn’t. Personally i don’t care. I think that his ghetto pass has been revoked, especially since how he threw the very same people who were partially responsible for some of his success (“Fat Albert”) under the bus. One of the problems is how he goes out in the public media amongst the white folks and air out the ‘dirty’ laundry.

    There’s a rule in war where you don’t let your enemy know what your strategy is. Also, you don’t let your opponent know what your moves are in chess. In other words, whatever issues we may have they should be addressed behind closed doors with JUST US and no one else.

  2. I agree brotha. Mos def.

    Grand can you give me specific incidents. Could national media have been covering events in the city?

    I’ll be back in an hour. This is a discussion that needs to happen. Thanks for being the first to respond.

  3. I agree that Cosby is a good guy. You just can’t have done all the positive ish he’s done for so long and not care. But he’s gotten a little at ease with all his jello money and everything and seems too often to blame black folks (again, I’m not black, but it seems clear) for problems which of course are partly of their making, but are significantly larger than them too.

  4. I echo TC. Remember, Bill has always toed the mainstream line when it comes to his public statements throughout his career. He has never ruffled feathers publicly, while privately providing tons of assistance. I understand his reasoning, but that doesn’t mean I agree with it. If Bill had been as adamant about calling out white racism throughout his career I think I would be more at ease with his present persona. He wasn’t, so I”m not.

  5. Sorry to hijack the thread, but has anyone here heard any reports concering the death of Nelson Mandela?

  6. Greg aka Farrod Says:

    Man, Cos’ makes the crazy racist speech 3 yrs ago, then follows that up with his bullshit book, and then goes on Meet the F****G Press with it…C’mon man, that’s some ‘cringe worthy’ stuff right there. Seems to me like the Cos’ working OT to negate any good he’s done. I love the Cos’, but Gotdamn!

    He don’t speak to power man. That’s a MAJOR problem in my eyes.

  7. T3

    Thanks.

  8. Bill has been a heroe of mine for a long time. And I believe his criticism of black folks was heartfelt and meant dfferently than many of us took them. However, he’s turned into a fool all at the same time and his long-time fame and fortune has made him into an arrogant fool as well. Choosing the 50thi anniversary celebration of Brown v. Board of education, was probably the exact wrong time to start the brouhaha, blaming the victim as he has done repeatedly is so absurd and like Allen says, if he had been adament about calling out white racism, I might view his statements in a different light, but given that he hasn’t and given the ease with which he and his female counterpart Oprah have slid into their respective roles vis-a-vis blaming the victim while letting whites off scott free, I have no choice but to view him in a negative light.

  9. GrandNubian Says:

    @mizz

    Here are some of the comments he made in 2004 pertaining to the poor, lower class, uneducated Blacks in America at Brown University. This is the one that initially ‘set it off’:

    “These people marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around.”

    The Cos was being honored for his massive donations to black colleges. He continued:. “The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids – $500 sneakers for what? And won’t spend $200 for ‘Hooked on Phonics.’

    “I can’t even talk the way these people talk: ‘Why you ain’t,’ ‘Where you is’ … You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!” Cosby thundered, reportedly making some NAACP bigwigs cringe..”

    Hey, the Cos may have meant well but he fails to understand how his words will be used by those who do not have our best interest at heart. For example, in those high places where decisions are being made on how much money will be spent for public schools and healthcare, those who don’t have our people’s best interest can/will use Cosby’s comments as reason not to aid and assist with those funds.

    What he should’ve been doing is raising hell about the socio-economic status and the lack of equal opportunities in this country. It’s one thing to point the finger at those who make easy targets. But it’s another thing all together when you call out the racist system that we all are subject to and struggle against everyday.

    Cos is no MLK; he’s no Malcolm; he’s no Jim Brown and he’s no Ali. You have to be willing to die for our cause. Cosby doesn’t strike me as one who is willing to die for his people.

  10. “I can’t even talk the way these people talk: ‘Why you ain’t,’ ‘Where you is’ … You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!”

    Ironically, I am and at times, it does.

  11. Nicole 10/20 Says:

    I am a fan of Bill Cosby too, but he has lost me. I remember him saying something about “when your dirty laundry comes home from school”. One hour on Meet the Press to an audience that theorectically already have their stuff together. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t he have a crack head daughter. Most American families have been touched by drug abuse, but he presents himself as above it all. Lets not forget the adultery and continually publicly embarrassing Camille and the accusations of his drugging women. I say all of this to say that maybe if he says something to the effect of ” we all have struggles and challenges and personal and public, but it ‘s how we respond to them that shows our character, we come from a people who have thrived despite the most horrific circumstances and we can survive this current crises.

    I blame his generation, because after the Civil Rights Movement they immediately believed that “white is right” and was so eager to assimilate that they abandoned black owned businesses and the community. For the most part they didn’t stress stories of the struggle. They left it up to a newly integrated school system. A school system that could care less about our history or our struggle. So now if subsequent generations don’t fully understand the consequences then his generation bears some responsibity also. The kids were not born with their pants hanging off of their butts. There was a reason NWA said Fuck The Police.

    Furthermore, I am not going to get into heaven just because I might know how to conjugate a verb.

  12. I have been trying to formulate my response to the question for quite sometime……but there is nothing for me to say after reading Nicole’s comment….verbatim, her thoughts are mine as well.

  13. Sista Nicole, Brothas garndnubian, kevdog, Allen, TC greg. Its like you guys are reading my mind. I absolutly agree with what you’ll said.

    Also remember how Cos said we can’t be naming our kids malik, shanique and the rest of those ethnic names.

    This from the same dude who in the 70s told Jim Brown to beat it with that pro black stuff.

    The same man who got his panties in a bunch when NBC wouldn’t let him buy them.

    The same dude whos daughter born out of wedlock had to go to the media to get him to acknowledge that he was her father.

  14. With Cos, I got mixed feelings. As I view it, the brother was speaking his mind. I don’t view him as trying to get financial gains or attain position of power /prestige. There was nothing for him to gain, the brother just spoke his mind. He already had whatever white acceptance he was going to get.

    It’s quite possible that Cos’s wealth and clout has blinded him from the day to day struggle that most of us have to endure, and because of that I’m not sure that he is the one to pontificate on the issues. That said, there are parts of his speech that I agree with. Finish high school. Avoid being a teen parent. That’s the same stuff I tell my kids.

    The idea of airing our dirty laundry to white folks. I could care less what white folks think, I’m not trying to impress them, f**** ‘em. I think we just need to concentrate on our task of continuously moving forward.

    Cosby speech does not bother me nearly as much as what I’m seeing now, The amount of Black support for Clinton over a viable Black man. Now, that’s some treacherous chit.

  15. The problem is that Cos is seen as a black leader by the white media. However his views are off track, so he is leading the white media off track. He’s like a bloodhound barking up the wrong tree. Yes, there are problems, but they aren’t the way he describes. The issue I have with him is that he spends too much time complaining. Never listen to a complainer. Listen to someone offering solutions. That’s why the point made by GrandNubian resonates so well. MLK, Malcolm, Jim Brown, Ali, Bill Russell, others … they offered solutions. You didn’t see Tommie Smith and John Carlos fucking complaining. Offer some damn solutions. That would prove that you cared enough to look into it, study it, contemplate the shit. Even if your solution is plain wrong. At least you tried. This is kind of like a generation gap, and I have to agree with Nicole on her “white is right” comment. That generation either a) wanted so badly to assimilate or b) checked out. I have no doubt and nothing but praise for Cos’ support of issues, and of his simply being a role model when we were kids for how to uphold yourself (“I Spy”) while still gettin’ your swerve on (“Uptown Saturday Night”). But … he’s not even close to Harry Belefonte.

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  17. Greg aka Farrod Says:

    Bro Imhotep,

    I’m interested in why you feel like you do, Bro. I feel what u saying about the ‘Hillary v Barack ‘thing, I really do Bro, cause I wouldn’t vote for her azz either. I really hate and am mystified about how alot of Blacks feel about her F@#@$G sorry azz husband.

    But in just speaking on Barack, the cat seems to be pretty much ‘bought’ as well.

    I like Kucinich, myself.

  18. What are you all talking about getting on Bill Cosby like this. He is doing nothing but telling the 100% truth. These poor blacks aren’t doing anything for the majority of the population, except making us all look bad. Personally I don’t care, but Bill is 100% in diagnosing the problem. Its these dead beat parents who are screwing up their kids, not soceity, not these “socio-economic” problems you alll like to throw out as excuses. Its parents who don’t give a damn.

    Bill will always get my respect.

  19. Has anyone hear read “Is Bill Cosby Right?” by Michael Eric Dyson? It brings up a lot of questions/answers for this exact debate.

  20. What another great post. I think Mr. Cosby love’s his people in his own way. I don’t for one minute think otherwise (here come the but,) he is going about it in the wrong way. Because of this it is hard for me keep respect for him. It seems more of an attack that anything else. maybe that’s what he think it takes.

  21. Why shouldn’t he attack the bottom layer of society that is screwing up the perception of blacks in society?

  22. DMac the majority of poor folk handle their business. Don’t give me that.

    For those of you who say Mr. Cosby doesn’t offer solutions, what do you say about ALL the time he spends in the ‘hood with HIS people?

    Look ish is messed up. Something has to change for OUR people to stop clawing to get out of the sewer (not speaking morally).

    This is about us. Like someone else mentioned, I could care less what other people think.

    How many BLACK people have to die before we do something besides having discussions on a blog? I’m personally fearful for the future of my (our) children.

    I’m not trying to offend anyone’s personal freedom but enough is enough.

    I’m transcribing a sick 2 hour interview with Chuck D that ended at 3 am this morning. I’ll break it up in two parts: Soul and Sports. It’ll be posted Sunday and Monday.

    Thanks Chuck

  23. Farrod, I feel they are all bought, some more than others. I think Hillary represent the establishment (which is antiblack) and she is courting the black vote like all her predecessors. I don’t believe she knows what it is to be poor and Black and disenfranchised in america.

    In my mind to vote for Hillary is to remain on the plantation!. She represent white society and white privalege. We have the opportunity to get off the F***ing plantation, and self determine, and we are confused as to who to vote for!?!

    This ain’t Clarence Thomas running for office. This brother did all the bullshit that america ask of her candidates (fancy university, state and federal office) but the brother also worked as a community activist for the projects of Chicago. The brother went to Africa (kenya) on his own dime to find his roots, he married a black woman. As far as I can see this brother is comfortable in his skin, and he cares about people. And we are confused as to who to vote for!?!??

    There are some concerns about Obama being bought, and quite frankly you don’t get to his position in the polls without being beholden to someone or some group(s) . But I don’t think that he has forgotten that he is Black. I’m not suggesting that once he get into office all our problems are solved. But we need someone in the white house, who looks like us and care about us. I personally am tired of condesending white folks in the white house.

    Ferrod, I feel you on Kucinich, but there is NO candidate on the democratic ticket, declared or undeclared, that I would vote for above Obama.

  24. Davidmac,
    Being poor is not the equivalent of “the bottom layer of society”….I’m really interested in why you think middle – upper middle class black folks are above reproach.

    Question for all: where is the hard statistic that proves black people living below the poverty line are buying expensive sneakers and clothes for their kids in lieu of the necessities for everyday life? I grew up with, have been around, and volunteered with programs for those living in poverty and I just don’t see it. I see those considered middle class buying into the “keeping up with the jones” mentality – not folks just trying to eat.

  25. Cevidence, I have not read Dyson’s book on the Cosby speech, I did however read Juan Williams book “Enough” which supports Cosby’s position. I guess to get a broad perspective is probably best to read both books.

  26. Great point Miranda

  27. Mizzo,
    Do you know who actually patronizes black businesses? It would be those poor folks that are being unfairly demonized. Who keeps Citizens Trust open in Atlanta? Yeah, one of the oldest and largest black owned banks sees a profit because those folks in SW Atlanta and all around the AU Center put their money there….the “upper crust” runs to Wachovia and Bank of America. Who has insurance policies with Atlanta Life and North Carolina Mutual?? The poor black folks who can only afford a small face value or only burial insurance that those companies offer….but when those companies try to expand and offer more products, they can’t get the “upper crust” to give them the freaking time of day. Poor black folks have probably supported historically black colleges and universities more than the alumni themselves…..and I can guarantee that if you took a per capita income poll of the members of these mega churches….those aren’t poor black folks.

    Where is the Cos’s wrath for the socially bankrupt middle – upper middle class black folks?

  28. @DavidMac

    ”What are you all talking about getting on Bill Cosby like this. He is doing nothing but telling the 100% truth. These poor blacks aren’t doing anything for the majority of the population, except making us all look bad. Personally I don’t care, but Bill is 100% in diagnosing the problem. Its these dead beat parents who are screwing up their kids, not soceity, not these “socio-economic” problems you alll like to throw out as excuses. Its parents who don’t give a damn. “
    —————————————————-
    You are 100% right that so many of this falling down on our part starts with the parents. Yet I know for a fact that as a child of your parent, they are responsible for you being the ass you are. In your world the poor amongst us might as well be classified as useless eaters and should be removed from your sight. And if you say you are comfortable with your station in life than nobody’s action or words can make you feel or look bad.

    Several posters have already stated that his approach on this specific matter is wrong, because it appears scatter gun and providing little or no solution, but ammunition for the haters on there. Everybody should note and respect that Cosby is legendary for his support of traditional African schools and other programs, but his track record is spotty when it comes to women and dealing with the White Supremacy structure. And dead beat parents come in all income brackets and ethnic enclave, so for that asinine post you should go sit in the corner!

    And thank you Miranda for dropping that bit of science up in here!

  29. GrandNubian Says:

    Great posts sankofa & Miranda!

    Htpw

  30. Barack Hussein Obama is not black. He’s half-black. His mother is a white American.

    This is like when people say Tiger Woods is black. Um, might want to ask his mother about that one . . .

  31. Yeah you ain’t lyin’. I thank you also Miranda.

    This blog educates me also. The knowledge you all give is priceless in my personal development and I’m humbled by you all constantly. I posted this to elicit this discussion. Please don’t think I’m naive by any means. I’m still learning too.

    Try to understand my purpose for these unorthodox posts and how they might help us all.

  32. Friedman I’m interested in why you posted his gubment?

  33. It was in response to Imhotep: “But I don’t think that he has forgotten that he is Black.”

    He cannot “forget” that he’s black . . . because he ISN’T and has never been black. He’s half black and half white.

  34. Dude you are so naive.

    We speak about Obama in Chuck D’s interview so I’ll withhold comment.

  35. To say that Barack Hussein Obama is “black” carries the exact amount of factual accuracy as saying that Barack Hussein Obama is “white.”

    Mizzo are you denying the very simple fact that Barack Hussein Obama’s mother is white, therefore making him half-white?

  36. Of course I’m not denying anything. You are sorrowfully mistaken if America doesn’t see a Black man when they see Obama.

  37. You are like the little kid in class who tells on everybody.

    What happened to that kid at recess? ;)

  38. Friedman,
    How does the US Census Bureau define race and ethnicity??

  39. I think individuals simply identify themselves as whatever race they choose, and then report it as such. And no: i don’t doubt that Obama (along with the US population) identifies himself as black, though I’m not positive. The point is: he’s half-black, half-white. It’s a fact.

    Incidentally, he’s also an empty suit with no experience whatsoever . . . and yet, amazingly, he’s probably the “strongest” Democrat on the ticket. Me, I’m praying that Hillary gets the nod – she has no chance at the WH. None.

  40. You got one thing right…the census bureau defines race as self-identifiable, Obama identifies himself as a black man.

    However, you are still quite wrong with your “half-black, half-white, so he’s just as white as black” mindset. You have absolutely no biological or physiological proof to support your “50-50 split” way of thinking. In fact, the dominant gene is the “black side” so to speak. Every propensity with regards to genetics comes from Obama’s black daddy. There is not one medical journal that would define Obama as anything but a black man.

  41. “You have absolutely no biological or physiological proof to support your “50-50 split” way of thinking.”

    Well I do know his mother is a white American. Therefore, his is biracial. Are you discounting her entirely because she is white, or because she is a woman?

  42. Powerful Obama quote –

    White people are just thrilled when a prominent black person comes along and does not rub their noses in racial guilt. White people just go crazy over people like that.

    I think that statement is 100% true, but that’s off topic. As far as his race goes, it’s the outword appearance that matters. Sadly. He may be half white, but his outward appearance is that of a black man. Same thing with Tiger and Lewis Hamilton (look him up if you don’t know who he is). It sucks but it all depends on what people see. That plays a major part in what they make of you. The same way some African Americans will vote for him because of his skin color, they’re white people who WONT vote for him cause of his skin color. It sucks, but its the truth……

  43. An audience member, who was a product of European and African genes, once asked Kwame Toure how can he know when one such as her is classified as either “black” or “white”?

    He correctly explained that there are two criteria: (1) how they look and (2) how they act.

    2 examples are Halle Barry and Riddick Bow’s former manager Rock Newman. One looks more European but will be quick to beat down a European for an anti-African comment. The other looks African but by the way she acts you swear she is seeking closure on that front.

    Friedman believes in the drop of blood theory, but twists it around just to be contentious. Under normal circumstances, he would be calling Obama, Eldrick and others “nigger”. But being the duplicitous agent provocateur he is he tries to make it seem as if we are as much of a group of Nut jobs as he hopes we become.

  44. Sankofa you are one scary dude.

  45. I’m not discounting his mother at all….I’m saying Barack Obama is a black man, and the US Dept of Health Statistics and every geneticist, bioscientist and social scientist agrees with me. His mother agrees too, or didn’t you hear Barack himself say she reinforced to him what he would encounter as a black man in this country??

  46. This cat knows this obvious stuff. He’s just Friedman being Friedman.

  47. Mizzo, Sankofa
    I know he’s just being an azz outta spite….I just decided to prove he was a dumb azz…also, outta spite. :)

  48. Miranda you are confusing yourself. I already said I’m sure Obama considers himself to be black, and others consider himself to be black too; that’s the perception. It is an outwardly, physical perception.

    But unless you are ready to provide some evidence, I would not go ahead citing geneticists and bioscientists quite yet. I mean, don’t genetics take into account a person’s mother? One would think that would be the case. Knowing, as you full well do, that Obama’s mother is WHITE, it is peculiar that you so easily dismiss her GENETIC influence on her very own son. Obama is half-white. It’s a fact. He may look black and identify with being a black man, but he’s not.

  49. You mean you didn’t learn in 9th grade biology that black dominants white?………..well, actually, you learn that in kindergarten with finger-painting.

  50. Again, you are talking about outward appearance and perception.

    Obama is biracial. If you’d like to disprove this simple fact, I’d be amused to see you try.

  51. Friedman –

    I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you. We all know that he is of biracial orgin. But does that really matter? I don’t think so. People see his skin and he’s a black guy. Point blank. And you know that’s the truth.

    Hell if Obama did something wrong, you better believe people would make more mention of his skin color. However if he did something right, that wouldn’t be brought up. But I digress….

    Let me ask you this, why were you so adament (sp) on bringing up his middle name?

  52. Oh, hell naw….

    I just know friedmach is not weighing in on this conversation…i just know he has better things to do.

  53. Friedman, do you not know what a geneticist is? A bioscientist? You’re talking about outward appearance…I’m talking about science.

  54. Cevidence, I do not disagree with you. As for his middle name, I know it gets his supporters riled up when its brought up, i.e. suggesting his Muslim ties.

    Miranda I have yet to see you cite one piece of “science” to back up your claim.

    Point blank: is Barack HUSSEIN Obama biracial or not?

  55. That’s the ish about politics that pisses me off….

    People use stuff like middle names, teenage mistakes and other crap to dis credit candidates. To hell with their stances on critical issues. I’m going to vote because its important to me that I have the right and privledge to do so. But damn I can’t stand listening to political news….

  56. Nicole:

    It wasn’t Cosby’s “generation” – it was his “class” that dropped the ball. His class (whether by birth, struggle or accident) has continually done this same thing time and time again. E. Franklin Frazier laid this out in Black Bourgeoisie (1957).

    Now, Cosby does allocate some of his time to calling his peers to task, but the reality is that those are his peers – and he’s only committed to going so far.

    Empirically, he is wrong about the degree of striving and apathy and academic success among poor Black folk. Voting rates, graduation rates and persistence in the job market all flatly refute his perceptions. His perceptions are widely shared – but have been since the first boat landed with its lazy, yet hard-working cargo.

    When you apply the same critique to the wealthiest segments of the Black community, you’d have to begin with the question of power. At the level of industry, the answer is NONE. This “class” does not control a single industry on planet earth. They don’t even control crime in their own communities. As a group, they’ve been wholly unable to EMPLOY their youth in a single field of endeavor. College donations are great, but given the structural inequities in education from K-12, it’s not the best expenditure of funds if it is to be the only expenditure of funds.

    I don’t see how a class that employs so few people can ever complain folks they’ve done nothing for other than “Role Model.” I can’t say what value role models provide, but I’d rather have a bunch of Black folks who owned comedy – rather than just forestalled my crying with their very funny jokes.

  57. splinks Says:

    “Sankofa, on the other hand . . . do you listen to yourself talk?”

    Not only do I listen to myself, but people with much more wisdom than you do also.

    “The world is not out to get you. Really.”

    No just those who seek to craft the world and condition others to the view the world from their own twisted, nightmarish view point.

    Just to enlighten you a little bit splinks. America Inc. likes to tell the world that she is a bastion of Democracy and equality. Isn’t that why Emperor George invaded Iraq?

    Yet the most serious argument we get from this pre-election whatever, is not whether Obama’s platform can lift the corporation out of the red, but whether he is “black” enough to swing the “traditional” votes?

    What the Fuck kind of Crystal Methamphetamine is being smoked here?

    Yeah! America Inc. Land of the trees, home of the slaves!

  58. Sankofa do you live in the U.S.?

    /praying that you don’t

  59. Because someone who holds such anti-American feelings does not deserve to live here, that’s why.

  60. You’re a threat to national security and he may just turn you in…lol

  61. You know what, instead of verbally jacking you up, I am going to ask you, what Anti-American feelings are you talking about?

    Let’s start a dialogue from there!

  62. @Barack Obama discussion

    The man is mixed. He has a mixed heritage he is neither all black or all white buy a hybrid. To try to deny one side in favor of the other is un fair to him and his family, so why do it? Freidman is correct the man is a mulatto not a black.

    @Cosby comments towards me

    Why am I against the poor? I am not, but a great deal of the crime that is generated by blacks comes from the lower economic blacks. Its simply a fact. Most crimes and the negative things attributed to black americans come from the lower end, and Cosby is right, these people need to stop making excuses and get on the job, ie raising their kids properly.

  63. me a new poster, sees immediately that Sankofa seems real! give ‘em hell!
    friedman is a pain, an agent of provocation up to no good.

    splinks is what…a an unsophisticate?

    informative thread

  64. I wonder how come Cosby didn’t go talk to the Eastern European community and scold them for their shortcomings after that Russian immigrant murdered his son basically for being black? Oh yeah because Mrs. Cosby had the balls to do it when he didn’t.

    Cos did and continues to do good things but I have a problem when successful Blacks think it’s their duty to blame us for making them look bad. I say US because I’m a product of the broken homes that Cosby rails against and I know as many gangstas as I do lawyers and as many addicts as I do doctors and as sad as it is to say I have more respect for the so-called underclass Blacks because they give it to you straighter than these social climbers who’d rather rub our collective noses in their successes than reach back to allieviate the circumstances they came from rather than running to surburbia to stay next door to people who are calling their realtor as soon as they move in.

    Keep doing what you doing, Mr. Cosby, because I know some kid is inspired by your actions. Me, I was inspired by voices that didn’t change their tone or their message no matter who was listening.

  65. @Davidmac & Friedman, You keep saying that Obama is mixed, like that’s suppose to mean someting. White supremacy does not make allowances for mixed race, you’re either white or you are not. And this country is deeply married to the ideas and practice of white supremacy.

    When strom thurmond had his first child, did he recognize her as mixed or Black? All he knew is that she was not white. When thomas jefferson was fucking his slaves did he do a family portrait with his offsprings? They were “mixed” or did he and his white family deny the existance of his mixed family for 200 years? All jefferson cared about was that they were not white, and that fact dictated his treatment towards them.

    So, to argue that Obama is mixed, like that have some relevancy in white supremacy is ridiculous. Futhermore, the harvard law review recognize senator as it’s first Black editor. The U.S. senate chamber recognize senator Obama as Black. But more importantly, Senator Barack Obama recognize himself as Black.

    This is not to take anything away from his mother. I have read both of Obama’s books, and his mother is the one that impressed upon him, at a young age, the richness of his africian heritage. Make no mistake about it, Obama is not trying to crawl into your camp. Like I said before Obama is comfortable in his skin.

  66. Imhotep:

    Now you and I both know that there is absolutely no such thing on God’s green earth as a “white” person. We also know that Anti-Kemitic Khazars have no standing in this discussion. As such, the very idea that Barack Obama is “half-Black and half-White” is patently absurd.

    Perhaps if you can get the Khazarian interloper to reveal his illogic, you could have saved yourself the time of writing such an eloquent defense of Senator Obama.

    I know you well enough to know his confusion is not contagious – but it’s getting more circulation than it deserves. Imagine the insanity of suggesting that anyone, anywhere on planet Earth is actually “half-White.”

    WTF??? I can’t imagine the confused, babbling responses that will come back from that one.

  67. how is it that comedians and sportswriters are now considered experts on poverty ,race and crime?

  68. bcw:

    I was reading this quote from DuBois – and he said something to the effect that when it comes to the “Negro problem” every schoolboy has an opinion. That was in 1897. This is nothing new. It is precisely because Blacks, especially POOR Blacks, are perceived as a public menace that everyone has an opinion.

    It’s precisely why fools need to get checked at the door. If you have not studied the condition of this collective and have no understanding of how we came to be who we are, where we are – no you have no more right to have your opinion separated from the Legion of Fools than if you stumbled into a physics lab in Palo Alto and decided to tell folks it was your OPINION the world is flat.

    This really isn’t about opinions. It’s about work and study and service. On the issues raised in his critique – Dr. William H. Cosby is absolutely W-R-O-N-G. With that said, he has done incredible work which is tremendously valuable. His work and service greatly exceed his study. He is not to unduly exalted or assailed for either.

    bcw: thanks for posing the question about the very framework of situating cosby or whitlock at the door. there are far too many other folks who’ve done more valuable things that would serve as better “points of departure.” these are mere distractions.

  69. bcw in the bizzaro climate we live in, these are the folk who are getting the most airtime to voice their opinions.

  70. My father and I had a conversation on Bill Cosby earlier this morning after he checked out this thread. He shared the same mixed emotions many of you have offered.

    His main point was that this is a white man’s world and why should we air our dirty laundry to white folk when they don’t do the same for us?

    He’s hot at Cosby and Oprah for doing such. I gotta go with that. I stand corrected on my opinion of Cosby.

    Off topic, but he’s the indirect reason why Ali’s pic heads this site. I remember him waking me up and telling me if Ali won or lost fights I couldn’t stay up to watch. He thought Ali was that important and I’ll never forget the look of excitement on his face after Zaire in ’74 or his shock and disbelief after Ali’s loss to Leon Spinks.

  71. You know before I check Bill Cosby for being crotchety and cranky and all that jazz, I really need to check myself. I am 32 years old. when I was younger, I my tolerance for b.s from all walks of life was much higher, because I was simply lost in my own little world. As I get older, my tolerance has waned, and my antenna is much more sensitive. So imagine being a 70 year old Bill Cosby, having seen as much as he has in his illustriously life. Time for him is urgent, the messages have to hit home quicker, and he’s earned the right to be a bit preachy. I’m smart enough to sift through his message to hear what I’m supposed to hear, rather than criticize what I don’t want to hear. That is my take on the Cos..

  72. When whites demonstrate pride of their own, it’s called “supremacy.” When blacks do the same, it’s called “celebrating heritage,” e.g. Black History Month. Strange choice of language, indeed.

    Imhotep, if you had read my posts, you will see that I concede that this entire country perceives Obama as being black, as does Obama himself. But he is biracial. It’s a fact. The very matter that this gets people all riled up speaks volumes.

  73. “the condition of this collective and have no understanding of how we came to be who we are, where we are”

    Ah, the “condition of the collective” and other such nonsense. You’re quite adept at the doublespeak, T3. You’re not a professor by any chance, are you?

    Hey, Sankofa, your anti-American rants speak for themselves. Also, you never answered my question.

  74. fried phunk…worse than that…

    what makes you think Obama’s mama’s “white”?

    “When whites demonstrate pride of their own…”

    What exactly does that mean? Who is classified as “whites” – and who are “their own”? Would you be referring to any of the women posted in links above?

    Single speak only.

  75. “When whites demonstrate pride of their own…”

    This comment almost pissed me off. It’s sad that we even have to have a Black History Month. Why? Because if it wasn’t for that month we wouldn’t learn a damn thing. That is if you want to call the same rehased info about the same 4-5 people “learning.”

    Damn now I’m pissed!!! I hate when people try to bring up this argument. Don’t you understand that EVERYTHING we learn is European/white american history. My senior year in high school when I took AP History, my class did not learn about a SINGLE person of minority descent. Not a single one!!!!

    If you were to look at the history cirriculum (sp?) in school’s today, one would think that white people are the only ones who have done anything positive in this country. You would believe that racisim is dead. And many other non-facts.

    I don’t have ANY problem with one celebrating history. But dont try to blind me into believing that Black History Month is in some way a negative double standard. If it wasn’t for that, no one, Blacks or whites would learn about pivitoal African Americans in this country. Hell’ I’m half Puerto Rican too and hispanics only get a WEEK!!!!

    Man…now I’m pissed lol

  76. One last rant –

    It becomes supremacy when you are trying to convince others that your race is “pure” or “better” than the others on this Earth. When you twist science or the Bible into “proof” that “white is right.” Then it becomes supremacy and not just celebrating heritage.

    Show me some point that Black History Month tries to convince people that African American is the best race, or supreme over others. Show me where it tries to do the same thing that white power enthusiats (sp) preach.

    There’s no way you can compare the two in ANY shape or form.

  77. GrandNubian Says:

    @mizzo

    Your father is a wise man. That was a beautiful moment between father and son. Nuff respect!

    @Cevidence

    Excellent comments. Your last post was especially on the money.

    Htpw

  78. Jemele Hill Says:

    I didn’t get a chance to read through all the comments, but took bits and pieces to get a general feel for the room.

    I have mixed feelings about Cos, too, but more positive than negative. Lemme ask y’all this (boy wouldn’t Cos appreciate that construction?): Did Cos take his message to the mainstream media, or did the mainstream media just intercept it?

    One prevailing criticism I often read about on this board is how blacks with mainsteam media access fail to take their message to the people that need to hear it most. On Cos’ tour, he was going straight to the hood. I remember when Cos came to Detroit. He didn’t go to some surburban spot. Bro went to one of the worst high schools in Detroit.

    Understand that in this media age, if a black is critical of another black, the mainstream media flocks to that like a fly on you know what. But why should that taint the message itself? Cos is a celebrity, so to some degree, he can’t control how the mainstream perceives his message. He was asked about this a while ago, and I must admit, I liked his response. He said white folks were going to think what they think about us, regardless. To me, when I hear people say stuff like, “keep it in house,” that means that you do fear how white America perceives our problems. That’s the least of our concerns. Black people aren’t all of a sudden going to start winning over new fans. Those that had something against us, will stay that way. Those with an open mind, will continue to have that. No matter what.

    Like someone else mentioned earlier, I’m more ambivalent with Cos’ comments because of how he would often separate himself and criticize outspoken blacks. It is fair to question his agenda from that perspective.

    However, at the end of the day, Cos has probably earned the right to have his criticisms. Money doesn’t wash away everything, but the fact of the matter is him and his wife and been vigilent supporters of HBCUs and other black causes. They’ve given over $200 million to the cause. To me, that excuses him.

  79. That’s exactly the point I was trying to make earlier about how media coverage affects how Cosby is perceived. Gotta get to a party, but please continue this if you can. Thank you all so much for this.

  80. “One prevailing criticism I often read about on this board is how blacks with mainsteam media access fail to take their message to the people that need to hear it most. On Cos’ tour, he was going straight to the hood. I remember when Cos came to Detroit. He didn’t go to some surburban spot. Bro went to one of the worst high schools in Detroit.”

    That criticism may be prevailing – but it’s part of a reactionary “respect” – “authenticity” dynamic that is wholly useless to black folk.

    The folks who’ve lodged that criticism of Bill Cosby simply haven’t done their homework and likely don’t have solutions for that which he has criticized. While they are well within their rights to make that critique, the real question is – “So what?”

    The location of his critique is not nearly as important as the application of his solution.

    “But why should that taint the message itself?”

    The message is tainted because is factually incorrect. It’s an opinion – like “the world is flat” or “the sun rises.” It’s not REAL. It’s an opinion. And it’s tainted.

    Our folks still have an institution-building issue. Cosby’s dollars have gone to sustaining educational institutions that serve a particular need…unfortunately, those institutions have not been able to profoundly extend their reach into the communities he assails – nor has he taken up the challenge of building Black institutional power in his primary area of professional expertise. His efforts in the 1970′s (in collaboration with Harry Belafonte, Sidney Poitier) were thwarted by corps and white ethnics — and that merits some scrutiny as well.

  81. Friedman

    What Anti-American rant did I espose? Let me go further, what or who is an American? As Temple instructed you, single speak.

    Since you are not my equal, I perceive you are attempting to find answers to your confusion about your place in this blog specifically and in this corporation called America. It is my duty to instruct you if you are confused, however if you continue to act the fool, then I will pass you by.

    He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not
    Is a fool—shun him.
    He who knows not, and knows that he knows not
    Is a child—teach him.
    He who knows, and knows not that he knows,
    Is asleep—wake him.
    He who knows, and knows that he knows,
    Is a wise man—follow him.

    Which are you Freidman? Who or what is an American and what Anti-American rant am I on?

  82. GrandNubian Says:

    “Lemme ask y’all this (boy wouldn’t Cos appreciate that construction?): Did Cos take his message to the mainstream media, or did the mainstream media just intercept it?”

    Looks like it was Cosby who came to the MSM, being that he was a speaker and made his initial comments at Brown University. I would be willing to bet that Brown is not located in “da hood”.

    “One prevailing criticism I often read about on this board is how blacks with mainsteam media access fail to take their message to the people that need to hear it most. On Cos’ tour, he was going straight to the hood. I remember when Cos came to Detroit. He didn’t go to some surburban spot. Bro went to one of the worst high schools in Detroit.”

    One thing we must understand is that just because you bring the message to your people, it doesn’t mean that other eyes are not watching and other ears are not listening. One thing that is wrong with the ‘so-called’ black leadership is that they don’t know how to do things discreetly. When in war, do you tell your enemies what your plans are? When playing chess do you tell your opponents what your next move will be?

    We have forums to address whatever issues we may have but given the history and nature of white people, it would be in our best interest to talk among ourselves and no one else. Look at the Asians or Indians from India. When have you ever heard them condemn each other in public?

    We have the resources to address these issues behind closed doors. We have fraternities, sorrorities, masonic lodges, churches, etc. Do we discuss that business in public? What do you think our ancestors from the past did? Marcus Garvey, perhaps the greatest organizer of the 20th century, did exactly what I am speaking of. He organized forums, groups which held private meetings to talk about how we can solve our problems without broadcasting it to the world, unlike today’s so-called leadership.

    “Understand that in this media age, if a black is critical of another black, the mainstream media flocks to that like a fly on you know what. But why should that taint the message itself? Cos is a celebrity, so to some degree, he can’t control how the mainstream perceives his message. He was asked about this a while ago, and I must admit, I liked his response. He said white folks were going to think what they think about us, regardless. To me, when I hear people say stuff like, “keep it in house,” that means that you do fear how white America perceives our problems. That’s the least of our concerns. Black people aren’t all of a sudden going to start winning over new fans. Those that had something against us, will stay that way. Those with an open mind, will continue to have that. No matter what.”

    I have to ask this question: For those of you who are married and have families, do you make your personal family business available to your neighbors? If you don’t, does that mean you fear what your neighbor perceives of you? Cosby being a celebrity is no excuse to not keep his message exclusively to his own people. He is a member of a college fraternity (Omega Psi Phi), so he knows the importance of keeping things “in house”. It’s pretty obvious that black people haven’t learned a lesson from allowing the stranger/enemy in our culture from years past. If you don’t learn from the past you are bound to make the same mistakes in the present and future. As a cultural rule, there are some things that you just keep amongst your cultural and ethnic group. It has nothing to do with fear.

    “However, at the end of the day, Cos has probably earned the right to have his criticisms. Money doesn’t wash away everything, but the fact of the matter is him and his wife and been vigilent supporters of HBCUs and other black causes. They’ve given over $200 million to the cause. To me, that excuses him.”

    I would agree that he has a right to criticize but just because he donates millions of dollars to HBCUs doesn’t let him or anyone else off the hook. Money cannot solve our problems. Our problem is that we have adopted and are confined to a culture that is detrimental to our very existence. With Cosby, you hear the criticisms, but you never hear the solution(s). He and Oprah would have us black folks believe that we can make it and be equal under this system of white supremacy. Furthermore as KevDog has mentioned, Cosby never calls out the white racist system that is designed to oppress people of color.

    As i mentioned earlier he is no Malcolm or Marcus Garvey. The very fact that he has been allowed to thrive in the spotlight is indication that he is no threat to white america. Why? Because this country has a track record of getting rid of threats. You think Cosby is willing to die for our cause? Hell no…..he takes the ‘high road’.

    High road = criticize poor folks, donate a few millions and call it a day.

    Hetep

  83. “There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.

    This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.
    But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

    The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.

    The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.”

  84. Well said GN, well said!

    Also Temple3 per usuall and cevidence, mapping out the program, so the blind can see.

  85. T3,Sankofa, and my girl Miranda,

    You guys have beautiful minds. I’m really tired from working doubles to chime in but gosh this is wonderful reading.

  86. Indeed Freidman, the very essence of the thinking of a nationalistic idiot and uneducated sheep.

    First of all you do not live in a Republic; you are employed or give service to a Corporation. Dare me come on dare me…I am eager to tell you why!

    Second, the only true national is the Native peoples, no hyphenated anything needed. Because your predecessors, robbed, raped pillaged and performed genocide on the indigenous of this land mass (and others on the planet)

    Third, you are now judge, jury and executioner? You decide who should be what YOU think they should be? As you defend the world’s largest imperialism?

    I wonder why there is a growing unease and anger outside of the Corporation, that is decidedly anti-what you represent and defend?

    Allegiance to a piece of fabric or symbols you have no clue about creates fanaticism, a police state and allows your manipulators to execute their agenda of one world domination. Allegiance to righteousness, truth and reciprocity should be the goal, not to defend meaningless symbologies.

    They fact that you stereotype African people as whiners and or misinformed – or any of the coded arguments so easily trotted out – when we shout about getting our ass kicked, indicates not only your gatekeeper status, but your racist nature as you SUPPORT the “anti-nigger machine” which is a part of this Corporation.

    YOU are not an American; you are the descendant of an invader, who practices a caste system based on ethnicity and melanin content of the skin. YOU are the beneficiary of over 500 years of genocidal program against the indigenous people, the free sweat, blood and tears, dismembered bones and piled high bodies of stolen Africans, and the indentured servitude of immigrants from abroad who believe the bullshit that America is a land of opportunity.

    The scale of Ma’at tilts neither left nor right but holds a perpendicular position. YOURE opportunity as outlined in America Inc. is ultimately someone else’s tragedy, hence the disparity between the impoverished and the wealthy.

    Finally if you or others who conscribe to the “only in America” philosophy feel you got yours so I should go get mine… you best be looking over your shoulders daily, because it is natural for humans to seek to get theirs in the easiest way possible.

  87. Sankofa, you are the epitome of the ANGRY black male. You expect everything handed to you and you place blame on others for your failure to achieve any kind of successes in this life. Yours is an old story; it’s not a stereotype, it’s a living, breathing truth.

    Maybe the third time will be a charm: what country do you live in? Please tell me you’re not accepting welfare checks here.

  88. blackmystory Says:

    Freidman are you a slum lord? Do you use your excessive influence and control in your business practices to avoid government oversight as you rip off poor people.

    I’m sure you accept welfare from the government and welfare from the single mothers you rent your roach infested dwellings to. Are you an immigrant from one of the Slavic countries? Did your parents preached to you never again?

    Maybe you will meet the forth horseman on your way to pitbull fight, if you’re not carefull.

    Tell me again what anti-American rants I esposed?

  89. Nicole 10/20 Says:

    There was a time when black men wore top hats, overcoats and suits and the women wore nice dresses and mid-level heels. They said yes sir, no sir and ma’am to people. They raised their children to respect authority and be responsible. They went to church and did not fill the jails. The music was good and “wholesome”. They didn’t do anything to hurt anyone, but they still got lynched, they still got falsely accused. They were still denied equal educational opportunities, fair housing or the right to vote.

    There needs to be a correction in our communities, no doubt. If there is never another black person who is addicted to drugs or ever breaks the law again or does whatever, if all the negativity of the African American community cease to exist, TRUST ME they will find something else to demonize. I’m not saying that to diminish the need for change. It’s true. Look at the Mexicans. They were doing fine until it was announced that they were the #1 minority, then all of a sudden illegal immigration is a problem. Excuse me, illegal immigration Mexican is a problem.

    Even with the problems that we have in our communities, we are still percieved as a threat.

  90. Jemele Hill Says:

    I’ll say this of the “keep it in house” mentality: It hasn’t worked and it’s an antiquated idea. That isn’t to say Cos’ way is right, but I’d hope the last 30 years or so have sent the message that whatever we tried to keep in house is out in full view. Cos wasn’t exactly reinventing the wheel by pointing out the failure to persist and lack of value for education. You can go to any inner-city school, look up test scores, graduation rates, etc., and figure that out. Obviously, the problems are more multi-faceted than that, but you get the point. I just don’t think Cos pointed out anything people couldn’t see with their own eyes, so it’s a misnomer to treat it as if he was unearthing state secrets.

    A better job must be done of balancing the overall fight for injustice with maintaining a level of personal responsibility. Believe it or not, those two can co-exist, but we often separate ourselves in one camp of the other, with members of both camps treating one another as enemies. Just because I want *some people to assume more control and responsibility in their lives, doesn’t mean I’m ignorant to the institutional factors that make that a challenge.

    And the money Cos’ has given shouldn’t be discounted so cavalierly. That’s major. It means he’s at least trying to address the problem with his best resource, which is money. 90 percent of the people with his resources don’t even do that.

  91. Jamele,

    A successful revolution–no, those lacking in knowledge may not understand that word. A successful community building process must have different approach to it. Philanthropy that Cosby is recognized for is good but is limited in that it supports post secondary educational institutions to teach our young to get a JOB.

    Bill Cosby does his share of philanthropy, and I am sure others have but may not be as renowned. We need to also create more institutions that service our daily needs. What are those the needs are food clothe and shelter. After that institutions that promote our interests, that show our images and how we relate to our neighbours.

    America Inc. has lost its ability to be a manufacturer to the world; the Africans need to build lasting viable institutions. We need not but to look to the Honorable Marcus Garvey and the Nation of Islam before the passing of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.

    Collectively we suffer from “beat down fatigue”, everybody is beating on us, and even we are doing so. Throw me a damn rope or a life preserver. Stop telling me about education will make the way, if its education it has to be one that shows me how to build and run shit. Where are all the others “who made it”, show us how to lobby effectively for our community or we will withdraw that spending dollar (at least we will if we ever develop Umoja).

    The term “niggers aint shit” didn’t come out of a void, but we sure are believing it as the truth. Cosby has the right to criticize, but along with that right come the privilege and the expectations to create solutions, or the next criticism will be vilified as more beating down of Africans in America.

  92. “There was a time when black men wore top hats, overcoats and suits and the women wore nice dresses and mid-level heels. They said yes sir, no sir and ma’am to people. They raised their children to respect authority and be responsible. They went to church and did not fill the jails. The music was good and “wholesome”. They didn’t do anything to hurt anyone, but they still got lynched, they still got falsely accused. They were still denied equal educational opportunities, fair housing or the right to vote.”

    Now that’s absolutely brilliant. It is an eloquent and fundamental counter to the “Anti-Black Behavioral Betterment Program” espoused by certain peoplez on this site and elsewhere. These folks never have jobs to offer because they don’t have business skills – but they recommend “job training programs.” They don’t even have tools for folks to coordinate and leverage capital for investing…instead, they recommend “saving.” It’s the same as it’s been for decades – and they always like as if what they’re saying is NEW. It’s not new. Folks were assailing the behavior of black folk during the era you wrote about.

    Jemele:

    “Cos wasn’t exactly reinventing the wheel by pointing out the failure to persist and lack of value for education. You can go to any inner-city school, look up test scores, graduation rates, etc., and figure that out. Obviously, the problems are more multi-faceted than that, but you get the point.”

    Actually – and in all seriousness, I don’t get the point. Is there anything else you’d like to look up – other than test scores and graduation rates – anything at all? Would you like to look at the curriculum? Would you like to look at per pupil expenditures? Would you like to look at the academic preparation, competency and compensation of teachers? Would you like to look at the audits of school and district performance — or would you STILL like to KEEP THE FOCUS ON THE LEAST EMPOWERED VARIABLE in the dynamic?

    Still focusing on children – still focusing on the behavior of Black folk…if y’all declared a moratorium on talking about Black folks behavior until you truly understood the institutional and personal factors that create, sustain, and endorse that behavior perhaps there could be some alignment.

    Do you really think the “Let’s Get Our Act Together” Mantra is going to work? How’s that working out with Americans buying foreign cars or electronics? No so good. It’s a Red Herring.

    At this point, I get that folks are simply vested in that way of thinking. They think it’s OLD SCHOOL – because all of us had elders who taught us better. That’s not the only thing that is old school. Our elders also taught us to study and that we had to be twice as good to get half as far. Now, if that is even remotely true, how is that so many of the Anti-Black Behavioral Betterment School KNOW SO LITTLE about the condition of their people over the past 50 or 60 years. They can SEE the condition of their people but cannot actually DISCUSS or RESOLVE crises in education, housing or employment. That’s a $@#% paradox…and yet, as DuBois said in 1897 “every schoolboy has an opinion.”

    I guess my problem is that I’ve never run an organization or led a group of students where I had time to build an agenda around discipline. We set expectations, we raised the bar VERY HIGH, we loved them, we challenged them and excepted no excuses and kept them busy on things they’d never done before – like learn about themselves in the context of improving their lives. We simply never had time to talk about what poor Black Joe wudn’t gittin’ did for hissef and his kinfolk. But we sho nuff had plinty o’ time fa unnastannin’ diffrintshuls in per pupil allocations, legislative action, urban economic development and community building.

    Finally, if $200M buys entry in the Behavorial Betterment Club, can you get in for less? Can a $10 donation to the Black United Front get you in on an annual basis?

    If Cosby was right, we’d have something to talk about. Since he’s wrong, the only thing left to discuss is what VALUE you derive from these factually incorrect rants.

  93. GrandNubian Says:

    “I’ll say this of the “keep it in house” mentality: It hasn’t worked and it’s an antiquated idea. That isn’t to say Cos’ way is right, but I’d hope the last 30 years or so have sent the message that whatever we tried to keep in house is out in full view. Cos wasn’t exactly reinventing the wheel by pointing out the failure to persist and lack of value for education. You can go to any inner-city school, look up test scores, graduation rates, etc., and figure that out. Obviously, the problems are more multi-faceted than that, but you get the point. I just don’t think Cos pointed out anything people couldn’t see with their own eyes, so it’s a misnomer to treat it as if he was unearthing state secrets.”

    I’m not sure how one can say the “keep it in house” mentality hasn’t worked, when it’s working in the form of fraternal organizations. Those of us who are Masons, OES, Alphas, Kappas, AKAs, Deltas, etc. should feel me on this one. As a matter of fact the “keep it in house” mentality has been working for thousands upon thousands of years. For example, traditional African societies have kept the secrets of the universe on lock down for thousands of years. Why? Because they saw what happened when they allowed Europeans into their societies. The “keep it in house” mentality also worked with Marcus Garvey, as no one in the 20th century went on to migrate or influence more Africans than he. He did all of this while keeping things on the ‘hush’. The problem with today’s society is we’re so overwhelmed by modern technology and mainstream media that we tend to ignore simplicity. Furthermore, it’s only obsolete if we NEVER resort back to the archives of the past and make use of them. Also, our vulnerability to constantly trust and allow those who don’t have our best interest always lead to our oppression and regression.

    Cosby hasn’t said anything that none of us doesn’t already know. But what has he said about a certain system of oppression that is constructed for and benefits only a certain ethnic group? We know about all of the problems. But why haven’t Cosby embarked upon the cause of and/or the solutions to all these problems? It’s not like people came into this world wanting to be poor or illiterate.

    “A better job must be done of balancing the overall fight for injustice with maintaining a level of personal responsibility. Believe it or not, those two can co-exist, but we often separate ourselves in one camp of the other, with members of both camps treating one another as enemies. Just because I want *some people to assume more control and responsibility in their lives, doesn’t mean I’m ignorant to the institutional factors that make that a challenge.”

    I agree that personal responsibility goes hand-in-hand with the struggle. But until we start holding this system of oppression and those who created it accountable for the current imbalance how much will our current situation change?

    “And the money Cos’ has given shouldn’t be discounted so cavalierly. That’s major. It means he’s at least trying to address the problem with his best resource, which is money. 90 percent of the people with his resources don’t even do that.”

    See, that’s part of the problem. We think that money is the answer to all of our problems. Sure, if used wisely and constructively, money can and will do wonders. But to think that giving money will stop the bleeding of racism and genocide is borderline insanity, with all due respect. What Cosby need to do is be more vocal on the issues that lead to poverty, drug use, child abuse, MIS-education, MIS-socialization, discrimination, racism, etc.

    Again, he is no threat to our oppressors because he’s very affable in his approach.

    Htpw

  94. GrandNubian:

    I think that money (depending on its source and liquidity) would be a huge benefit. For example, take a look at the list of the world’s richest persons on Forbes. It’s an interesting list. Most of the persons on the list are European – and there are an increasing number of Russians, Chinese and Indians. The upper echelons of the list are exclusively male. A solid, if not overwhelming, majority of the women on this list derived their wealth from some form of inheritance (spousal/familial).

    Now Black folk in the US are not likely to be the cadre of Africans who burst into the billionaires club in any significant numbers. I believe there are several reasons for that – and they are all beyond the scope of this blog. Still, if Black folk in the US had billionaire business persons whose assets were highly integrated and not subject to isolation or predation by coordinated resistance – they could be singularly effective in organizing solutions.

    I would exclude Ms. Winfrey from this. I respect her work and I respect her tenuous position. I don’t often borrow from Shelby Steele, but I believe he is correct in describing her as a “bargainer.” Her promise to white America is that “I will not assail you with your criminality or history if you do not use race against me.” It’s a “let bygones be bygones” mentality and it has served her well. Occasionally, she raises issues, but her inner circle is full of white women who lack the capacity, skill, or resolve to effect the right solution for Black folk. They’re working on a show. The benefits which have accrued to her are considerable, but they come with strings attached.

    Now consider if Oprah’s money was derived from sources which were not transparent and not subject to mood shifts among 50-year old white women. She would have considerably greater latitude to restructure the labor, education and housing landscape of Black folk in the US. The possibilities would be endless. Now if you had five or six folks like that – they’d have tremendous opportunities to move an agenda forward. Surely they’d have security challenges – but they’d have to work that out.

    I would expect those billionaires to do some things to be of service. I wouldn’t expect them to be Conduit Whores who lend their names to white-run enterprises that gouge fees from poor folks. That approach has worked for Russell Simmons – but he’s only a millionaire who failed to align his character and his diligence.

    In the grand scheme of things, $200M simply isn’t a lot of money. Osceola McCarty made an enormous donation on the salary of a seamstress. It’s an important sum of money but…

    ——-

    We agree that money must be used “wisely and constructively.”

    ——-

    “What Cosby need to do is be more vocal on the issues that lead to poverty, drug use, child abuse, MIS-education, MIS-socialization, discrimination, racism, etc.”

    I disagree here. I disagree because I don’t believe that’s his best attribute. Cosby is a genial, affable fellow who is really about SOLUTIONS. Fat Albert was entirely about the resolution of problems. That’s what his public work has always focused on. I’d rather see him focus his public comments on solutions – but not just him. I certainly can’t tell the man what to say – but I can get at him after it comes out.

    Cosby isn’t a threat because he doesn’t have an institutional program and he doesn’t have a successor. Don’t believe that you will not be perceived as a threat if your are affable. If you have your shit together and understand the nature of the beast – you’ll be perceived as a threat. You will be a threat because you’ll generate results – you’ll educate entire communities, change the face of poverty, extend lives and improve their quality.

    When folks see you, they’ll say, “He ain’t no joke.”

  95. Ron Mathias Says:

    This is a quote from DavidMac:
    “Why am I against the poor? I am not, but a great deal of the crime that is generated by blacks comes from the lower economic blacks. Its simply a fact. Most crimes and the negative things attributed to black americans come from the lower end, and Cosby is right, these people need to stop making excuses and get on the job, ie raising their kids properly.”

    Question, does most of the crime generated by white people come from the lower economic whites? The negative things that white americans do comes mostly from the economically poor(“lower end” as DavidMac calls it)also. Go into any trailer park, USA and you will find most of the same problems as the Hood, USA. Meth Heads and everything else. The reason why there is so much crime in the lower economic areas is not that hard to figure out. Money! Which makes a difference in many areas, such as education, protection, and others. I’m getting off topic so I will stop. The point I am making is Bill should have said that people from the lower income is failing, not just the blacks, but whites also. Everybody has dirty laundry.

  96. GrandNubian Says:

    T3,

    “I think that money (depending on its source and liquidity) would be a huge benefit. For example, take a look at the list of the world’s richest persons on Forbes. It’s an interesting list. Most of the persons on the list are European – and there are an increasing number of Russians, Chinese and Indians. The upper echelons of the list are exclusively male. A solid, if not overwhelming, majority of the women on this list derived their wealth from some form of inheritance (spousal/familial).”

    We’re in agreement. But we must be careful in not making the mistake that money is the only viable solution. The solution goes much deeper than money. One word…..C-U-L-T-U-R-E.

    I think you read my mind regarding the exclusion of Oprah as a source of income. :-).

    Yes, we agree that money must be used wisely and constructively.

    “I disagree here. I disagree because I don’t believe that’s his best attribute. Cosby is a genial, affable fellow who is really about SOLUTIONS. Fat Albert was entirely about the resolution of problems. That’s what his public work has always focused on. I’d rather see him focus his public comments on solutions – but not just him. I certainly can’t tell the man what to say – but I can get at him after it comes out.”

    When I made that comment, I was saying it in contrast to what he had already said to set off us black folk :-). In other words, to prove a point that his initial approach was not as effective as, say, if he had been outspoken on the ills and effects of oppression. However, in reading your comment and reasoning behind it, I think you’re right.

    “Cosby isn’t a threat because he doesn’t have an institutional program and he doesn’t have a successor. Don’t believe that you will not be perceived as a threat if your are affable. If you have your shit together and understand the nature of the beast – you’ll be perceived as a threat. You will be a threat because you’ll generate results – you’ll educate entire communities, change the face of poverty, extend lives and improve their quality.”

    Indeed my brother!

    Htpw

  97. Ron Mathias …I see you have met DavidMac, TSF’s resident “Black conservative bipolar knee-grow”.

    Stick around and you will be introduced to the European instigators, main ones being Boney, Friedman and sundry others sneaking in to nip at your heels.

    Welcome friend.

  98. GrandNubian Says:

    T3 and or sankofa,

    Steve Cokely has named Cosby as well as several other prominent black males as being part of the Boule’. However, i have read where it was said that Cosby has denied being a member.

    Have you guys heard anything along these lines?

  99. “Everybody has dirty laundry.”

    And yet, in 2005, offending homicide rates in this country were SEVEN times higher for blacks than they were for whites. Hmm.

  100. Friedman, put your money where your mouth is and write something. I’ll gladly post your words.

    I’m serious. You come on here with these stats but never fully articulate how these “stats” are relevant. If you have something you deem substantive then say it.

    Do you think you are the check and balance for the check and balance?

    What’s your business here?

  101. GrandNubian

    The premis of the Boule is indicated in the second half of the following:

    http://blackmystory.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/,

    It is in the spirit of the talented tenth belief of Dubois. Once you pledge you are immediately become a Boule, because that is the original intent. However not every pledged brother or sister, will actually be a gatekeeper (my words).

    So him saying that is mis leading, based on the origin of the Fraternity.

    Keep in mind all college fraternity/sorority are paterned off Noble Drew Ali’s attempt to mix Moorish science with Scottish Rites, hence some secrets are just that.

    If you follow what they do and not what they say…you will overstand what the term Boule means and why i call them gatekeepers

    Peace

  102. Ron Mathias Says:

    Fried, you may be right with your stats, but there are different types of laundry. Go and do more research and find the other types of laundry. Thanks for the heads up sankofa.

  103. Now that didn’t take long now did it. Peace brother, thankfully we have the antidote (anti-dolt?) for that disease.

  104. Fried –

    Yeah you’re right…homicide rates were really bad for African Americans. Horrible for that matter…

    But what about child rape…..kidnappings….money laundrying…embezzlement….child porn…rape (might be close)…. I’m willing to bet that those are just some of the crimes that whites commit a lot more than African Americans….

    So as you see….there are more than ONE type of dirty laundry.

  105. Several things are obvious here,

    1. Friedman is clueless and Miranda is not. Seeing this back and forth banter about genetics and race is too funny. Friedman makes an incorrect comment, Miranda corrects him, then he rebutts with another factually incorrect comment! HA!

    2. White people didn’t need Bill Cosby to start forming negative opinions about black people. The argument of keep it in house doesn’t fly with me, perhaps it doesn’t fly with Bill. Maybe he just doesn’t give a damn what white America thinks, I know I don’t, that’s my two cents. There was some truth to what he said, I think we all know that, there were also some inaccuracies.

    3. To anybody who says the failure is all on the parents, tell that to Genarlow Wilson’s parents or the parents of the Jena 6 boys. Did they fail their kids or did an out of control system of racism fail their kids, thought so biches! Tell that to the thousands of Genarlow Wilson’s and Michael Bells of America.

    Sorry but until the playing field is leveled I don’t want to hear some crap about failing parents. If you don’t care about a level playing field, fine, just shut your mouth and quit spitting bs!

  106. Johnny G

    When people talk about failed parenting, they emphasise physical abuse or verbal abuse. Yet they overlook neglect, which is more prevalent and more dangerous because it flies under the radar in that conversation. When we talk about personal responsibility, consider that any and all that befalls you is equally yours as well as “circumstances”—whatever that means.

    A lot of the things we do as youth are attributed to being youth, but that absolve them from making responsible decisions. In our pursuit of “things”, i.e. that extra shift, to purchase, pop culture icons or big ticket items, we neglect to teach fundamental things.

    I am a parent of four children, and I and my wife made a decision to condition and raise our children a certain way. One of those ways includes not putting yourself in a compromising position, something we expect of adults but failed to realize that adults best learn that in childhood. Using the Jenna 6 and Genarlow Wilson situation is specious because certain facts are obscured in those examples.

    1) He shouldn’t have been in that room having an orgy and filming it…as evident from most celebrity incidents, nothing good ever comes of that.
    2) Michael Bell already had issues with the legal system, and being more recognizable than the others needed to not be there.

    These are but two of the responsible decisions that a child can learn from parents. If you don’t believe that, then maybe you are the one spitting BS. Again as a parent and one who works with homeless/delinquent/troubled youth, I believe most parents talk at their children not to their children.

    Don’t confuse the shitstim in its oppressive nature, with parents failing their children. Never think we can not be effective guides and teach by words and examples, whether inherent or learned.

    I mean how many times you hear a parent cry for a child victim or perpetrator of “black on black”, yet not knowing that some of these same mothers cannot control or have given up trying to talk to them?

    That’s because the best time to talk to them, or educate them is from the womb…..meditate on that!

    To your playing field anology, all I have to say is this: “Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.”

    So “If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.”

  107. GrandNubian Says:

    Well said sankofa!

  108. GN:

    Don’t know anything at all about that group.

  109. TheLastPoet Says:

    “If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.”

    There is no better summation of Friedman function and role at this website in existence.

    Such a flaming idiot is never to be feared – and keep in mind that he’s the best they’ve got. Sure, some of them are more clandestine and devious in their approach to the “other.” But once exposed, their arguments are NEVER any more coherent than what we get over and over with this small-minded little man.

    The very idea that one such as him or the group he represents – whether we consider his “group” in terms of color, creed, ethnicity, nationality, culture, religion, sexuality, financial status, or gender – could be “superior” to me? You’ve got to be kidding.

    From their point of view, perhaps the worst that could happen is to send a ghetto kid to a good school because as soon as you see white people up close, the gleam of their alleged “superiority” that we all learn from the boob tube quickly becomes dull and rusty.

    I’ve enjoyed watching each of you take turns beating Friedman down. But like the Greek neophyte who once kneeled before the mysteries of Great Sphynx, this lost lil puppy keeps coming back for more.

    This was off-topic, I know – just call it a public service announcement. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming…

  110. Damn, I really do enjoy this blog.

  111. “From their point of view, perhaps the worst that could happen is to send a ghetto kid to a good school because as soon as you see white people up close, the gleam of their alleged “superiority” that we all learn from the boob tube quickly becomes dull and rusty.”

    We have a winner. Having the same from the same vantage point, it is exactly as you say.

    I certainly hope you aren’t the Last poet.

  112. GN, Temple3

    “From their point of view, perhaps the worst that could happen is to send a ghetto kid to a good school because as soon as you see white people up close, the gleam of their alleged “superiority” that we all learn from the boob tube quickly becomes dull and rusty.”

    I’ve always maintained that Africans in the West and on the continent have developed a victim mentality due to us losing the European Imperialist war and the over 500 years of psychological warfare we experienced. We are psychological trauma victims expecting to get on with our lives with out base therapy to set us straight mentally.

    The symbols we bow down to, supported by guns, medications and incarcerations, keep us in check over the nine areas of people activity. We tend to forget that our oppressor puts his pants on the same we do, so we fear him/her to where we would savage each other before turning our scopes on him/her.

    That is the epitome of self hate.

  113. Sankofa:

    I think there is a great deal of truth to what you say, but there are some points of departure for me worthy of discussing. This may not be the forum for it – but we need to put “500 years” in context.

    Europeans didn’t come to Africa imposing their will. They weren’t doing it in the 1500′s, 1600′s or 1700′s. Much of what’s been understood about the last 500 years is mythical and based on the decimation of the indigenous population here and the importation of Africans. The slave trade to the West was not the result of Europeans imposing their will on Africans. By the time Europeans were fully capable of imposing their military will on African kingdoms, the slave trade had already peaked.

    Certainly the military examples of the Sudan and South Africa should illustrate the military power of Africans well into the 1880′s. Some have argued that the Maxim Gun is what was decisive in Southern Africa. Clearly African kingdoms of this era were not maritime based and so they did not have the capacity to take the fight to Europe – but European maritime kingdoms could not wage war on the continent the way we’ve been led to believe.

    The victim mentality is the product of a misunderstood history.

    Our people have not studied the military history of Africa for the past five centuries. One poster on this blog recently remarked about not seeing the utility of doing so. If we believe what Europeans tell us about the world, we might as well begin the death march now. Our military history is complex and has significant victories worthy of discussion.

  114. “So as you see….there are more than ONE type of dirty laundry.”

    Arrest distribution percentage by crime for blacks, 2006:

    TOTAL: 28%
    Murder: 51%
    Rape: 32%
    Robbery: 56%
    Aggravated assault: 34%
    Burglary: 29%
    Motor-vehicle theft: 35%
    Fraud: 30%
    Embezzlement: 32%
    Weapons charges: 40%

    In other news, blacks constitute roughly 13% of the U.S. population.

    These are the numbers. Sankofa, I’m sure, is ready with the excuses. “But, we had to deal with 500 years of psychological warfare.” “But, what is race, anyway?” “But, what is murder, anyway?” “But, America is a corporation.” “But, BusHitler is at fault, he’s a fascist!” “But … but … but …”

    You can talk about the “dull and rusty” whiteys all day long, that’s fine, I have no problem with it; just please use some context.

  115. So you give us all those numbers….

    How much do whites attribute for those same crimes. Cool. But two things:

    1. How much do whites attribute for those very same crimes? (You forgot to add child rape/pornography — I think that’s the SICKEST type of crime ever and you always see the sterotypical white male as the perp)

    2. Where’d you get that info as well?

  116. Damn…sorry for saying the same thing twice…trying to watch tv at the same time.

  117. Sex offenses, excluding rape: white, 73%, black, 24%

    Offenses against family/children: white, 67%, black, 31%

    FBI website:

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html

  118. Peace

    Agreed on the misunderstanding of African Military worth, however part of warfare happens before and after the battlefield. I specify that later part of the imperial war as synapses and not a whole. You and I over stand the importance of psychological war fare and the importance of not allowing your enemies to close to you. For then they study you and learn your weakness.

    All things happen in cycles and if you don’t plan for the down cycle you become a casualty of it. The African empires became fat and lazy, and when faced with an enemy more hungry of course we become their lunch.

    Sort of like what is happening to America Inc. in Iraq and Afghanistan, the greater army is being stupefied by a lesser one with more to fight for.

    The victim mentality comes from the fact that our culture has been substituted for another, through missionary schools and institutions and the separation of the young from their primary caregivers, the harsh suppression of ethnic and cultural practices among other many techniques have created a community of abused mind and soul. Not saying every one has lost their way, but those that did where used to interfere with those that did not. We believe and practice self fulfilling stereotypes as victim because we forgot precisely what you just mentioned. That is our story, our culture, our ethics and our creation stories. Plus none over time has ever been as effective in subjugating the masses like the Imperialist forces we’ve seen over the past 2-6 centuries.

    It is quite a complex situation but a deep over standing of warfare will truly impress on one how the enemy actually designed and created that manufactured being called the knee-grow.

  119. Again Friedman, what is your point. This is a discussion.

  120. Now let’s see how easy numbers can be misused to make a point:

    Fried — You gave the percentages between whites and blacks who commit those crimes. I looked over every crime listed there and blacks lead in only 3 categories: Gambling, robbery and violent crime. Vice is also led by blacks by a small number. So one could easily try to say look — blacks are the problem with crime in America.

    But with these very same numbers, I could say that look…whites are the cause of the crime issue in this country. See, they get arrested for more crimes than anyone else!!!! But I’m not going to do so, why? Because in the end it doesn’t mean a thing!

    In my opinion it breaks down to 2 things: A) the individual B) living circumstances. When you put people in a desperate situation, a good number of them will act desperate. That’s fact. To try and paint a whole society because of some is ridiculous. The individual is the true person responsible for their actions.

    When I took communication studies the first thing my professor said is that you can use numbers and percentages to say ANYTHING you want them to say. No matter if your point was off base, you can find numbers or create them to match that fact. The same thing has been done here.

  121. Friedfraud:

    Does the Khazarian Clinic of Criminal Causality reveal those numbers you’ve posted are born of biology or some other phenomena?

  122. An email sent to me from a prominent journalist. He’s a very good read. I’ll have an interview with him posted after the first. I’m also going to hold off from posting Chuck D’s until the new year. I would like everyone’s thoughts….especially if any of you have read Gladwell’s piece.

    Mike,

    There’s an interesting article in the Dec. 17 edition of The New Yorker magazine. The writer is Malcolm Gladwell and he reports on a man named James Flynn (?) who has done extensive research and cataloging of IQ data, comparing races, nationalities, etc.

    The bottom-line conclusion is that at age 4, most kids (particular white American children and black American children) have pretty much the same measurable IQ. From that age on, the disparity starts to show. The basic conclusion is along the lines of what I have always thought and completely debunks the many researchers who have believed that blacks and others have inferior IQ.

    Basically, the brain is like a muscle. The more information it is fed and the more it’s exercised, the more developed IQ is. Since white people in this country GENERALLY have more opportunity with schools and the like, white kids out pace black kids.

    Likewise, I have always thought the inverse was true when it came to sports. Because sports is so central to much of black (see: poor) culture, you have more athletes. If it were the other way around in this country, I truly believe white people would have developed more as athletes. Instead, that hasn’t been as much the emphasis in white culture.

    Anyway, this is a long way of saying “I think you would like to read the article.”

  123. Can you post a link to the piece?

  124. Mizzo, it’s to supplement Cosby’s rather infamous comments:

    “Looking at the incarcerated, these are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! Then we all run out and are outraged, “The cops shouldn’t have shot him” What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? (laughter and clapping). I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else (laughter) And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said if get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother. Not you’re going to get your butt kicked. No. You’re going to embarrass your mother. You’re going to embarrass your family.”

    The point being . . . well, the man has a point.

    http://www.eightcitiesmap.com/transcript_bc.htm

    Cev,

    “When you put people in a desperate situation, a good number of them will act desperate. That’s fact.”

    It may be; but if that desperation leads to violence, it doesn’t make it right.

    “The individual is the true person responsible for their actions.”

    I am in agreement 1000%. The statistics are a summary of a bunch of individuals’ actions.

    As for the data itself, you have to take into account population as well. If blacks are arrested for 51% of murders last year, while only making up 13% of the entire U.S. population . . . well, as Cos was getting at, something is very, very wrong.

  125. Here’s the link to the piece Mizzo is talking about:

    http://www.gladwell.com/2007/2007_12_17_c_iq.html

  126. My bad it’s also linked in my comment..hey it’s the egg nog ;)

  127. TOTAL: 28%
    Murder: 51%
    Rape: 32%
    Robbery: 56%
    Aggravated assault: 34%
    Burglary: 29%
    Motor-vehicle theft: 35%
    Fraud: 30%
    Embezzlement: 32%
    Weapons charges: 40%

    You racist devil…yeah I said that. We all know how the FBI is a bastion of fairness when it come to the African community. However, i will conceed that you and your kind are superior to us in one thing. Your ability to kill, maim, rape, suck dry destroy all that stands in your way, including each other. On top of that you devils are very good at twisting truth,statistics, and sound bites into any thing you want to.

    You can argue all the racist shit you want, but know this everything goes in cycle, today you tomarrow me, Book that.

  128. Ah, I should have predicted Sankofa’s excuse: why, the FBI are cookin’ the books! Of course! Wow. Cite some statistics from a government website, and the reaction is “racist devil” nonsense. That’s how you deal with facts? Hate speech and veiled threats? You’re a very big man.

  129. Come on folks lets keep it real rap.

  130. Bigger than you dick head! And a whole damn smart enough to know horseshit follows a horses ass, so best to avoid it,

    Statistics from a government website? Oh! I forgot “America the beautiful”, uncle Sam’s got you immitating Eddie Murphy immitating Ralph Cramden in Raw. If you’re not going to answer my prior questions instead of throwing out your statistics, answer Temple:

    “Does the Khazarian Clinic of Criminal Causality reveal those numbers you’ve posted are born of biology or some other phenomena?”

  131. lol too late mizzo…..

  132. “horseshit follows a horses ass, so best to avoid it”

    Now that is a good line; will have to remember it for future reference!

    Sankofa, if you’d like to provide proof that counters those FBI, statistics, I’m all ears – and I promise not to call you a racist devil!

    I’m not sure what T3 is asking there ….

    Also, you never answered MY question ….

    Merry Christmas! No hard feelings Sankofa!

  133. Keep hitting T3 and sanokofa with the truth Friedman. You know when they have no ground to stand on when they can no longer refute the facts, and resort to personally attacking you. Good work.

  134. Here, Sanks, a sampling of your “love” for America! A country that you call . . . wait, do you call it home? Still haven’t answered me.

    “America Inc. likes to tell the world that she is a bastion of Democracy and equality. Isn’t that why Emperor George invaded Iraq?”

    “Yeah! America Inc. Land of the trees, home of the slaves!”

    “this corporation called America.”

    “the world’s largest imperialism”

    “a police state and allows your manipulators to execute their agenda of one world domination”

    “the “anti-nigger machine” which is a part of this Corporation”

    And that’s just from this thread alone! Clearly you are anti-capitalist; are you a Communist? Socialist? What economic theory do you subscribe to, Sanks?

  135. What facts are those DavidMac?

    Like Friedman needs you to cosign his idiocy? It is blatantly obvious that I am attempting to get the Sun to rise in the West here. It‘s obvious that I have not heeded Kevdogs warning about feeding trolls.

    That means I am the person others on the road will see arguing with not one but two fools, thus I become guilty by association.

    Since the only contribution you can provide to this blog is your racist pandering hidden behind Jingoism and flag waving, let’s call it a day.

    You have pulled my so far off the topic I am beginning to think my navigational skills won’t allow me to get back on the original path.

  136. TheLastPoet Says:

    “…they can no longer refute the facts?”

    What website are you reading Mac? The trouble here is that these fine ladies and fellows have grown quite tired of repeating the same set of facts over and over again to the likes of you and your new friend Friedman. That’s when the insults begin.

    It’s like talking to my 8 year old daughter or my 4 year old niece. Smaller minds can only absorb data in smaller amounts, so as adults we find that we have to repeat ourselves to our children in order to get them to do the things we want them to do.

    Same concept here, except with children, the mature, caring adult exhibits patience. But you and Fried chicken claim to be adults yourselves, hence the frustration…

  137. DavidMac:

    I’ve been nice and avoided your lame ignant ass for quite some time…now you decide to step out of your cave to get Friedman’s back…this should be interesting. I suspect you won’t much longer…it’s time to lay waste to your dumb ass.

  138. Thanks LP – but personally, I insult FriedFraud on GP. It’s just gotta be that way. This DavidMac fellow is one I’ve simply ignored – for the most part. I guess he thinks he has something to say. We’re about to find out. I already know friedfraud has nothing to say – he can’t even figure out why he posted those numbers. He just did it as a reflex.

  139. And David…

    if you’re wondering why I’ve referred to you as a dumb ass – it’s really simple…you jumped on the site full of supposition and signification…but you’ve added nothing. you’re not the classic old school dude you think you are…and if you jump into this data/crime conversation, it will be obvious for all to see — so step into the arena and we’ll see exactly what drew you so close to the FriedNuts this wintry day.

  140. Friedman, You’re an example of america. You’re a racist because you want to be a racist.

    See, you white people like to talk about freedom and liberty, and you like to celebrate your paul revers, and your george washingtons as freedom fighters from the british. “we gained our independence” Valley Forge and a bunch of other feel good shit.

    But Black folks were not allowed to have freedom fighters, that why your pic’nic lynchings were so well attended. And over the last 80 years our freedom fighter (Garvey, Evers, X, King, Hampton) were all lynched by your beloved FBI.

    So now you bring me some paperwork from an organization, the FBI, that does not like me. Executed those that spoke up for me. Subverted those that organized for me, And now you’re asking me to have faith in findings of the FBI? FUCK YOU!

  141. Lotta stuff to read.

    Sankofa is a bit nuts, but if I lived near him, I’d buy him a beer and BS for an hour or three. But I don’t know how you can argue with him on the ‘corporation called America’.

    We all know by now that corporations own our politicians. They teach that in poli sci 101. They’ve been owned for well over a hundred years now. Who wins most of the votes, the guys with all the money. Corporations play both sides of the campaigns, lobbyists are huge business… (legal to buy votes, I will never understand that).

    Also, the mixed race thing is one of those things that I’ve always found fascinating. I’ve known a lot of mixed race people over the years, and it is surprising how they view themselves and how others perceive them. My kids are multi-racial, and I always get that ‘YOU’RE the dad?’ look when I meet their teachers for the first time. So you can claim half white/half black, or half white/half filipino (for mine), but all people see is the dominant features.

    On a side note though, the mixed children are the best looking… my sons are gonna clean up.

  142. Lol…

    I’ll get with you on that GMP…we do clean up!!!

    I’m Puerto Rican and black and women LOVE my hair and my eyes!!!!!! LOL LOL LOL!!!!!

  143. Hey TEmple3, you can say what you would like, but the fact is this I support my statements with links and stats. You just spout garbage to try to justify your hate and for the most part lack any study or stats to back them up.

  144. Sweet Jones Says:

    Once again, I see the Loki types have been dispatched here to raise more mischief.

  145. Hey, boys, care to address the facts, the statistics? How much ranting can you do before you actually attempt an actual argument based on reality – not just your leftist leanings and black-power diatribes. Why is it that, when faced with a series of statistics, you go ape-shit and can’t form a coherent rebuttal?

    The numbers are there for your review. Black folks, statistically, are much more – much more – predisposed to violence and crime than white folk. These are the facts.

    Care to address them?

    Hey, Sanks – why so embarrassed to admit you live in the U.S.? Ashamed you’re taking government checks to pay for dinner every night?

  146. Whachu know ’bout Loki Sweet? Holla!! You are always right on time.

  147. DM:

    That’s the L-A-S-T criticism I expected to get. Then again, you’re new here. I never come up short on numbers or sources. You bettah ass sumbody!

  148. “boys” and “apes” – he must be talking to DavidMac. After your banana, perhaps you could marshal an addendum to clarify your specific points of agreement with ringmaster friedphuk.

  149. Didn’t think so, T3 – didn’t think so. Carry on, son.

  150. I never said I had a problem with those numbers. Why do you think I have a problem with those numbers? I asked you for your rationale…is it to make a point about biology or something else? You never answered. If son is the best you can do, I’d prefer you spell it Sun – and always use a capital S friedbyatch.

  151. Fried –

    As I said, you can use statistics to form any argument you want to. If you look at the FBI data that you brought into play, they’re only 3 categories that African Americans have more arrests than whites. Robbery (didnt say if they were violent or not) and gambling. Those were in the overall categories. African Americans lead in the under 18 age group for Vice and violent crime.

    So from those very numbers I can very easily say that white people commit more crime than African Americans. It’s right there. Look at the totals.

    As for committing those crimes. I honestly believe it goes more to living situations than race. More African Americans are in poor, desperate living situations, (take Camden, NJ for example, where I lived for a time) and resort to such things as crime to try and get by. That doesn’t make it right in any way shape or form. I will also say that if roles were reversed, and more white people lived in those poor situations, you would see the same thing: that white people would lead in the exact places you point out for African Americans. Thus it deals more with living situations than the race.

    Then on top of that African Americans make up 13% of the population as you said, however they make up more of the poverty rate than white people. AGAIN, a living situation that causes some to lose hope or sanity and resort to such things.

    It doesnt do with just the race. Its ridiculous to say that African Americans are more violent or more criminals. That’s basically calling us criminals by default of our race. If that’s the case, white men are pedophiles and greedy executives by default. Now that doesn’t sound cool huh?

    So my whole point is…all those stats you blow out are mean two things:

    1. You can make numbers and stats say whatever you want them too, no matter the argument.
    2. Crime statistics are more linked with living situations and individuals than with race.

  152. Wouldn’t you all rather wait to hear why he posted the numbers in the first place. Khazars have been known to launch into biological determinism with reckless abandon. Perhaps he’s suggesting something about “biology” or a culture of poverty or personal responsibility — who knows…only he and the ape boy DMac.

    Once we find out what his point is – then we can move forward – until then, there isn’t much to talk about. nothing to defend, nothing to attack…just numbers out of context.

  153. Because you fail to address them. You provide nothing but personal attacks, and vague, irrelevant, “historical perspective.” You have no interest dealing with the real world, and what is actually going on, today.

    The numbers were cited for a reason. Mizzo asked the same — they were in response to Cosby’s comments about black crime. They fit the topic. They are statistics, facts. You have no way of brushing them aside, so instead, you resort to personal attacks and liberal bullshit that solve nothing. You are transparent and anyone with an open mind can seen through you like water.

  154. “So from those very numbers I can very easily say that white people commit more crime than African Americans. It’s right there. Look at the totals.”

    Wrong. You’re not factoring in ratio. But I appreciate your response.

    I don’t care about living situations. I care about one person making their life better, and by effect, making their children’s lives better too. The opportunity is there for all who are interested.

  155. You think I have a problem with the numbers because I have not addressed them.

    Is that your final stupid ass answer of the evening or is there more? Seriously.

    Let me cut to the chase…I’m calling you a liar. I don’t believe you posted the numbers to provide context because the comparative with “whites” would be immaterial. I believe you posted the numbers to suggest that “whites” are not crime oriented – and that the target group in your post is crime oriented.

    Yep. I believe Friedphukkk is full of stuffing – a fabricator – a prevaricator of the first degree.

  156. “I don’t believe you posted the numbers to provide context because the comparative with “whites” would be immaterial.”

    Well if I cited them with no comparison then what would provide the context? They would be a stand alone number … and the next question would be, “Well what about other races?” Your very question is contradictory.

    So you have no problems with the numbers. No response, of course, but at least no problems; apparently that is a step in the right direction. You are one step closer to dealing with real world problems; for a leftist, that can only be congratulated.

  157. Fried —

    You made my whole point. By factoring in ratio, you can make the numbers fit your argument. By me not factoring ratio I can use the numbers to fit my argument.

    I wasn’t saying you are wrong. I was saying that you can make numbers say and do whatever you want. Politicians and researchers do it ALL the time. And I was doing the same thing here.

    If more white people are arrested for more crimes, thus they commit more crime. However, if you take the numbers your way, more black people commit crime even though they do not make up a high number of the population.

    Two different FACTS, two different arguments, using the SAME data.

    And you should care about living situations. If you’re “attacking poor blacks” for their situation, you have to look at the WHOLE situation rather than just the race of those offenders.

  158. “Well if I cited them with no comparison then what would provide the context?”

    TIME – stoopid ass. Figure it out.

    Unless you are making a biological argument about immutable characteristics, there is very little point in comparing personal and property crime statistics of two groups with WEALTH differentials as wide as “whites” and “blacks.” Income is an indicator – but not the best indicator…wealth measures reveal that today and tomorrow “blacks” will have about 10% of the personal wealth of “whites.”

    In your world, there is no historical perspective so we cannot say whether the disparity is attributable to anything – without history there is no context only conjecture. So you and the ApeBoy can guess about the 9:1 wealth disparity and then figure out why your comparability measure actually makes any sense.

    As long as you stay away from universities and marketing presentations where professors or vendors will only be impressed by meaningful comparisons, you should be just fine. If you get anywhere near a board room or a class room, I’d suggest the old “I’ve Lost My Voice Defense.” You could always say Quannis ate your homework.

    My question is not contradictory because only you, ApeBoy, and Cosby are talking about “races.” I tried to get you to identify the white women with the links – you passed. Those were contemporary pictures – you passed. So, until you actually describe what you mean by “race” – I can’t help you out there.

  159. The numbers are there for your review. Black folks, statistically, are much more – much more – predisposed to violence and crime than white folk. These are the facts.

    Care to address them?

    Why don’t YOU address them? You are the only one here facinated with those numbers /stats. Now that you have revealed to us that Black people commit more crime, surely you must have thought of the WHY? or am I giving you too much credit for being a deep thinker?

    Others here have cited social reasons, economics reasons, political reasons… But you say, no no no, all excuses. So please share with us your definative reasons as to why Black people commit more crimes?

    Inquiring minds needs to know.

  160. It is at a certain point Temple and Cevidence that I concluded this devil; this succubus is stealing our energy and our focus. This vampire like blood sucking beast thing, is here to create distraction.

    Admittedly I had to step back, and realize this creature is deliberately and expertly being divisive and distracting as we seek to come to a conscientious on healing ourselves.

    However, I will not give this critter anymore attention or energy, nor will I give his broke back side kick the time of day.

    Let’s move on to a sunnier place.

    Peace and blessing

  161. I’ve taken a statistics class they tell you that you can twist them the way you want.

    I’ve always been amused how white collar crime will do more to affect more people, and screw more lives, but the punishments are rather lenient. Steal my wallet, screws me for a month… maybe.

    Steal my 401k, you’ve stolen years of my life.

    Milken… from 10 yrs sentenced to 2 yrs served, and is still a multi-billionaire. White collar crime pays. Those are the real gangsters.

    Anyways, in the stats you gave, it appears Mexican, Asians and others do no wrong. Apparently the US is only black and white, there is going to be a lot of pissed of people to find out they don’t exist.

  162. remember the board is for posterity – it’s not about him/them…and I agree with you 99.9% have a wonderful evening. and remember davidmac will be back – attitudefull and programfree.

  163. aiight san – I’m witchu.

  164. Hey Sanks, WHERE DO YOU LIVE?

    Please tell me my tax dollars aren’t paying your rent.

  165. Skiles is out in Chicago.

  166. Maybe they should hire Mike Singletary…

  167. Your tax dollars paid for my kids food back in the day Friedman. But we were in the military, we got paid so well, we qualified for WIC.

    Thanks man, I appreciate it.

  168. Funny. MODI has made some really good points about how the Bulls basically screwed themselves by gambling on Ben Wallace. It probably won’t make much difference whom they select. I’ve heard Carlyle’s name thrown in the ring.

  169. My computer crashes and all hell breaks loose, after reading Friedman/David Mac talk on black crime and American Pride I can only say one thing BULLSHIT !!! You can always post stats to prove a politcal or scientific point and it does not take much. Just go to the FBI or census and quote them verbatim, when the facts are different. like Wanda Sykes once said in her comedy routine the FBI only counts those they catch not those who get away with crime.

    If you are going into a poor community in a major city you will find crime more prevelant and the Police wants the most busts for a media op, and cops have told me this themselves. In the Florida Pandhandle there was a drug operation that ran for nearly 20 years and the residents refused to coperate with authorites because many of these people were customers of the dealers who sold meth, crack, powder coccaine and Heroin. Last year the Feds finally broke the ring open when cops caught the ringleader was driving with drugs in his car and finally confessed to the extent of that majority white seaside community. The cops/feds/government know it is cheaper to go after poor black and brown people and use the power of the law to subject them to unfair laws rather than go after all users and dealers whatever their color.

    Friedman/David Mac no one wants to hear you phony whiteboy nationalist ramblings about Cosby, black folks or crime. My problem with Dr. Cosby is that he pulls stats out of his ass and says some of the most stupid things to shock people into his “bell ringing”. Unless people like Cosby, Williams and others are going to install cameras, funding neighborhood watch programs and arming law- abiding black citizens to do the job that the Police (who are half of the problem) because many of them are on the payroll of drug – dealing criminals. I would say that 50% of police officers who work in inner city areas nationwide on the payroll of some drug dealer. Why would anyone snitch in a high crime area when it could come back to haunt them?

    I may agree with the substance of Cosby’s comments but his actions have created greater damage to the black poor than any of his speeches in the public square and have made things worse.

  170. Sorry that I’m late to this party. I haven’t read all 174 responses but did read many of them. Some thoughts:

    – Someone already alluded to it, but M. E. Dyson’s book on Cosby exposes a lot of the blatant hypocrisy on Cosby’s part. It certainly informs this discussion.

    – I resent that Bill Cosby of all people sparks a national discussion. if Jerry Seinfeld started talking disparagingly about poor white people or “trailer trash”, would a national discussion then ensue? African-American leaders both elected and non-elected have been talking about education forever? Why don’t these voices receive national attention? I’ve heard 101 black leaders reference “building more prisons than schools”? Where is the national spot light? The bottom line is that Cosby made statements that white media and white bigots absolutely love because it wahes their hands of having to boldly confront and change institutional racism that is embedded in our school system. Cosby’s speech was cherry-picked a few days later after it occurred so whites can express THEIR OWN feelings under the guise of reporting news. Cosby is a damn comedian, not a presidential candidate. Only a black comedian would be elevated to such a platform by the media.

  171. Also, I think the question of “does Cosby care” in the end means little. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” But I will bite on the question anyway because of a personal/professional experience… Cosby has had a history of magnanimous giving which tells us that he at least once cared. But i would suggest that there is a certain elitism (Cosby IS a multi-millionaire) that not only is plainly evident in his comments, but has even been evident in his past philanthropy which targeted private colleges. Now please don’t misunderstand, I am taking nothing away from his past deeds, but am simply making a point.

    At the time of his famous comments I was working for the National Partnership for Community Leadership (NPCL) one of the only minority-run organizations in the country that specializes in serving and bettering the lives of young fathers — with a focus on black and latino fathers who lacked the economic resources of Cosby and his extended family. Dr. Jeffery Johnson, the president of the organization took exception with Cosby’s elitest remarks, but wanted to see if Cosby would consider “putting his money where his mouth was”. You know, actually do something constuctive for the very young people that he was chastising. At the very least he wanted to create a dialogue: not on “Meet the Press” which doesn’tly exactly reel in his targeted demographic, not on CNN, but at the organizations annual Fatherhood Conference… in front of our nations leaders who are in the greatest position to implement and create some REAL social change that Cosby speaks of: https://www.npcl-ifc.org/welcome1024-1.html

    Anyway, to make a long story short. we learned quickly that Cosby’s appearance fees — even for a lunch keynote address– were off the charts. I can’t remember exactly, but it was absolutely crazy. And it also gave us a window into just how much Cosby was truly interested in creating change. While I’m sure that Cosby is genuine on some level (unlike Whitlock), just like scores of rich white people, he is incredibly elitist. And of course, black elitism often becomes white bigotry’s best friend. Personally, I think that this increasingly frequent partnership between white bigots and black elitests is defining “the new colorline” of the 21st century” and it is making it harder than ever to tackle any issue of institutional racism. Cosby, whether well-intentioned or not, is part of the problem and not the solution. If he ever truly wanted to be part of the solution, I can personally give him the names of who to talk to, and none of their names are “Tim Russert”.

  172. the sports media watch has a great column on jason whitlock.

  173. “If he ever truly wanted to be part of the solution, I can personally give him the names of who to talk to, and none of their names are “Tim Russert”.

    LOLOLOL!

  174. [...] Had a great discussion on Bill Cosby recently on TSF, what are your thoughts on his influence in Philly? Our opinion of [...]

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  178. I think Bill Cosby is an absolutely wonderful, respectable man and a wonderful example for the black community. Some blacks (CERTAINLY not all), are holding on so tightly to white racism. In this day and age (2008, NOT 1950, 1960, or 1970. but 2008), blacks have all the same rights and laws to protect you as white people do. I think some blacks want to hold on to racism as a security blanket so if they fail at something that they try for, they have something to blame it on. They blame it on whites instead of blaming it on themselves. it’s always easier to blame everything on the whites rather than blame your own actions and decisions you make for yourself. Obviously, i’m white and believe me, I’ve failed at many things in life that I have tried for, but I blame myself and just do the best I’m capable of and keep trying at things until I succeed.. Every black and white human being on earth will always find a person in this world who is smarter and/or richer than we are ourselves unless you’re God. God make each of us with different talents and gifts so we all just have to find out what that gift is and pursue it. anyone who does that will find inner peace and happiness and won’t have time for bitterness and complaining. If we can take personal responsibility for our successes, we can all certainly take personal responsibility for our failures and not blame another person or race. I’m sure many Jews and Germans could still be complaining about Adolf Hitler, but there is no need to because he’s dead and so are his policies just like the terrible whites who made laws many years ago to hurt black people THEY’RE DEAD and so are their policies, so move on! Whites did do terrible things at one time, but that was our great grandparents and earlier generation and there were no laws to protect black people back then, so MOVE ON and stop dwelling on white people and stuff that happened a long time ago and just concentrate on your own success and stop obsessng about whites. Just forget about us and go ahead and succeed.

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