Release the Hounds

With a Hat Tip to The Big Lead, we get this extraordinary segment from Fox News, courtesy of Newshounds, whose mission statement reads: “we watch Fox news so you don’t have to.”

Indeed.

On Monday, Dan LeBatard wrote a column in the Miami Herald arguing that – hold your breath – race has played a role in reactions to the Michael Vick case (The shocking title: “Vick Reaction has Racial Aspect.”) So, on Hannity and Colmes Monday night, there was a panel discussion devoted to the issue of how race was influencing people’s reactions to the story, featuring LeBatard, Atlanta-based syndicated radio host Neal Boortz, and former NFLer and current Sirius radioman, Jim Miller.

There were two incredible aspects to the show that I’ll focus on: 1) the reaction of Alan Colmes to LeBatard’s comments and 2) the presence of radio talking head Neal Boortz on the panel.

First, there was Colmes, the designated liberal in the Hannity/Colmes tandem. While Hannity more or less calmly directed traffic among the guest panelists, Colmes was simply incensed at LeBatard, repeatedly accusing him of “playing the race card” or of “injecting race” into the discussion. Most of the time, such lines would be mere cliches. But, in this case, they’re extraordinary. Hannity introduced the segment first by playing a portion of Vick’s newsconference Monday and then by airing reactions from Black callers to radio stations, arguing that Vick was being treated unfairly because of race. Hannity introduced the radio clips this way:

“angry callers flooded radio stations to say that Vick was being punished not because he broke the rules but because of race…”

And, this was the point of LeBatard’s column: that there is pervasive mistrust among many Blacks about a White-dominated justice system, media and NFL leadership about whether “one of their own” is going to get a fair shake.

Here’s a segment of LeBatard’s column:

There is so much baggage and history and emotion and volume here that a lot gets lost in translation. I don’t hear many black people defending Vick’s actions today. What I hear is many black people objecting to the size and intensity of the reaction. Those are two very different things. But they start to sound the same when white people yell with disgust, ”Not the race card again!” and black people counter with, ”Race impacts everything.” Not a lot gets heard clearly when people are trying to talk while standing that far apart.

And the louder and angrier the reaction gets, the more pressure is put on authorities — usually white authorities — to make an example out of a black icon.

Quibble with our country’s laws if you like, but you have to abide by them if you want to be free here. That’s nonnegotiable, and it is going to get Vick jailed. But it is after that when things get muddier. The question isn’t whether Vick should lose money or freedom today. The question becomes how much of his money and freedom he should lose. The difference there is between penalizing a black icon and ruining him.

It makes sense, based on past history and personal experiences, that black folks might not trust the system to treat one of their own fairly once we go from letter-of-the-law jail to subjective suspension.

The people making the decisions about how much of his life Vick gets to keep post-jail are white and applying their sensibilities — which is how you arrive at rules that ban the black athletes who like to celebrate from dancing too much in the end zone. All the team owners and the commissioner are white, as are the richest of Vick’s endorsers and most of the consumers of all this product. You’ll forgive black people if they aren’t terribly comfortable with white people making the rules for them. That hasn’t gone so well in the past.

In short – the point of the panel was to discuss racially-based reactions to Vick. LeBatard was on the panel to discuss his view that there is, in fact, a perception among some that race has played a role in driving reaction to the Vick case. And, incredibly, Colmes’ repeated outbursts to LeBatard boiled down to attacking him for injecting race into a discussion about…race.

As newshounds noted, LeBatard acquitted himself well. He repeatedly asked where the Black panelists in the discussion. He pointed out that neither he, nor anyone else on the panel, was really well-equipped to discuss this issue. He waved away Colmes’ fulminations about Vick’s heinous crimes by noting that Vick should, of course, be punished for his crimes. He raised the trust issue on the program succinctly:

“All I’ve done is express an opinion, by some members of the Black community that they don’t trust a white system: white commissioners, white owners, white sponsors, white TV hosts. They don’t trust the mainstream media to treat their Black icons fairly and you guys just don’t want to listen to it.”

Which prompted this spluttering reaction from Colmes:

“just because we don’t have black people on right now, and just because we don’t have a Black host of this show, we’re somehow irresponsible. You’re the one injecting race into this issue.”

Well, no Alan, I am not sure I would use the word “irresponsible” and LeBatard never said that. But, if you’ve introduced a discussion about race and then repeatedly cut off one of your guests for actually trying to talk about the issue around which you’ve organized a fifteen minute segment on your program, you do qualify as a moron.

Incredible aspect number two was the presence of Boortz on this particular panel. Hannity introduced him as by far the most-listened to radio voice in Atlanta and, therefore, well-qualified to speak about the racial aspects of reaction to Michael Vick. Boortz came on the show with his small, pet dog, presumably for effect, and Hannity referred several times to his good friend, whom he’s known for a long time. Boortz said that he didn’t think race played any role in this story and that most Black people disapproved of what Vick did and would cringe at the callers played at the beginning of the segment as representative of a “thug culture,” but not of most Black people.

What’s so incredible about that? Well, leaving aside the “thug culture” comment (none of the callers broadcast in the initial segment gave any hint of being a “thug” unless you think that, by definition, Black voices sound like thugs), how about Boortz’ documented history as a racist asshole?

For starters, many internet sources say that Boortz was a speechwriter for then-Georgia governor Lester Maddox, who ran on a segregationist “states-rights” platform in 1966. Boortz’ own online bio, notably, is quite slippery about this fact. In discussing jobs Boortz held prior to graduating from law school in 1977, Boortz includes “writing speeches for the Governor of Georgia” but omits any reference to the name “Maddox.” Now, I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of people reading that, if they could name any pre-1977 Georgia, would assume he was talking about Jimmy Carter. In any event, the vague formulation is noteworthy.

Well, as Henry Hyde perhaps might say – “youthful indiscretions.”

But, wait, there’s more. Thanks to the good people at Media Matters for America, we have a nice compendium of quotes from Boortz’ radio show in recent years.

Among his choice remarks:

In a December 12, 2005, weblog post, Boortz predicted that California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) would commute the sentence of convicted murderer Stanley “Tookie” Williams to life imprisonment because “Schwarzenegger knows full well that as soon as Tookie’s death is announced there will be riots in South Central Los Angeles and elsewhere.” Boortz wrote that “[t]here are thugs just waiting for an excuse … not a reason, an excuse” and explained that “[t]he rioting, of course, will lead to wide-scale looting.” Boortz added: “There are a lot of aspiring rappers and NBA superstars who could really use a nice flat-screen television right now.”

Surely, Boortz wasn’t thinking about race at all when he made those comments (Williams, by the way, was executed. And, there were no riots. Good call, Neal).

Then there were the remarks he made about former Georgia congresswoman Cynthia Mckinney. No, not about her political views, or her conduct in office.

No, this was about her hair, which Boortz said made her look like a “ghetto slut” and “ghetto trash.”

Oh, and Boortz previously called her “the cutest little Islamic Jihadist” in Congress.

Another one:

During the June 21 (2007) broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, host Neal Boortz offered a suggestion he said he got from a listener’s email: “When we defeat this illegal alien amnesty bill, and when we yank out the welcome mat, and they all start going back to Mexico, as a going away gift let’s all give them a box of nuclear waste.” Boortz continued: “Give ‘em all a little nuclear waste and let ‘em take it on down there to Mexico. Tell ‘em it can — it’ll heat tortillas.”

And, last but not least, Boortz has said that Muslims “are sort of like cockroaches.” (That’s his idea of humor, it appears).

Good to know he’s an equal opportunity bigot.

So, to recap, FOX has a panel discussion on whether race plays a role in reactions to Michael Vick in which there are no Black panelists, where the one guy who says race is a factor is repeatedly criticized for injecting race into the discussion about race (by the “liberal” on the show), and in which one of the panelists – there to give a presumably evenhanded sense of the racial pulse of Atlanta –  has a documented history of racist and bigoted statements.

You can’t make this stuff up.

144 Responses to “Release the Hounds”

  1. Accusing someone of playing the race card absolves white people of having a serious discussion on race. Instead of having their point of view listened to and discussed rationally, the person is dismissed as a race baiter. End of discussion. Next topic. It gets tiresome.

  2. Dwil
    You can’t really expect me to get anything done today with my blood boiling like it is now do you?

    Diallo
    Exactly, exactly, exactly.

    Yeah, like I said, enemy, pure and simple.

  3. KevDog

    I am afraid I’m responsible for your blood boiling on this one, not Dwil.

    J

  4. J, way to hit this one out of the park GS bottom of the ninth with 2 strikes and 2 outs. Walk off hr my friend, thanks for the good read and even better well researched information. To have a discussion about a race without including a person of the particular race you are talking about is truely ignorant. I like what Dan L had to say. Bottom line people if you are not an obvious person of color and by that I mean physically, you can not speak about the plight of those said americans. Your experience in this country is totally different. Those people however if they truley care about americans of color being treated fairly can draw on the history of this country there in the truth lies but only if you choose to open your eyes and see it.

  5. J,

    great piece again… the more I see, hear and read Lebatard, the more I like him. On PTI he actually said that the media, the AJC specifically, ruined Richard Jewell’s life by falsely (and without a shred of proof) accused him of the Olympic bombing.

    That was the 1st time I’ve ever heard of reporter admit to any wrong doing…

    RIP Richard Jewell

  6. Stop playing the race card.
    Next topic.

    He killed dogs man, string him up by the balls.

  7. They don’t care. They don’t have to care. They won’t listen. They’ll never listen.

    This is what they think about us. We’re still niggers to them, they just don’t say it to our face as often.

    You’re right KevDog…they are the enemy.

  8. What saddens me more, however, and it might it be a bit off topic, is Michael Wilbon on the 2 Live Clow..I mean Stews, saying that ‘Mike should do a year jail time’. How can any responsible brother form his lips to say whether another blackman, short of rape, murder, assault, and ‘high level’ drug dealing, should do time? Knowing full well how we are already disproportionately represented in what is the most obvious example of systemic racism in this country?

    How?

    Then this clown goes on to explain how Mike isn’t a ‘1st time Offender’ because he’s been fighting dogs for 6 years.

    Fukking Idiot.

    He’s a ‘1st time Offender’ because he’s never been before a judge before Mike.

    Moron…

  9. KD:

    Now you know and damn well that this is not something to boil the blood. It’s tedious and it can wear you down, but it ain’t a blood boiler.

    Check out the blog Assault on Black Folks Sanity…they do a great job in this area.

    JW:

    Excellent thought-provoking piece. Well done – as usual.

    The explosive psychopathic racial personality on display. It’s a beautifully ugly thing.

  10. Great stuff J, although i really wish it didn’t exist for you to find.

    — Colmes is a prime example of FOX’s tried and true tactics. They always have really weakass “counter points” who is supposed to represent the anti-facsist viewpoint of the day. The bigoted Hannity is so much more competent than Colmes in every way. Even image-wise Colmes looks like he is on his death bed.

    — For a few years now Dan LeBatard has been the best journalist in sports.

  11. http://smartenupnas.com/2007/08/29/trick-daddy-speaking-the-gospel-on-the-mike-vick-case

    Im sure someone will have something to say.

    I have vowed to pretty much ignore anyone who uses the term “race card”

  12. J

    KevDog

    I am afraid I’m responsible for your blood boiling on this one, not Dwil.

    Bastard! No just kidding. Great piece as usual.

  13. Paul #4

    I don’t exclude persons who are not of color from having insight into these conversations. I’d feel perfectly comfortable having JWeil or Dave Zirin taking on these fools in this discussion and I’d want to blow S@#T up if Terrance Moore were the invitee.

  14. GMP #6

    “Stop playing the race card.”

    Stupid and ignorant is as stupid and ignorant says.

  15. Kev-

    Read the article, then the first comment.
    Just reinforcing the point made by Diallo.

  16. The Psychopathic Racial Personality on display @#6.

    White male fascination/obsession with Black male genitalia + desire for castration = White Supremacist Ideology 101.

    To quote JWeiler, “You can’t make this stuff up.”

  17. Ap #7

    “You’re right KevDog…they are the enemy.”

    Not all white people Ap. But anyone who would use the phrase, “Play the race card,” yeah, absolutely, every one. Period.

  18. GMP#15
    “Kev-

    Read the article, then the first comment.
    Just reinforcing the point made by Diallo.”

    Gotcha. My bad.

  19. T3
    KD:

    “Now you know and damn well that this is not something to boil the blood. It’s tedious and it can wear you down, but it ain’t a blood boiler.

    Check out the blog Assault on Black Folks Sanity…they do a great job in this area.”

    Lately I’ve been on simmer 24/7. Don’t take much to make me boil.

  20. Was I the only one that read Diallo’s comment?

    ‘Accusing someone of playing the race card absolves white people of having a serious discussion on race. Instead of having their point of view listened to and discussed rationally, the person is dismissed as a race baiter. End of discussion. Next topic. It gets tiresome.’

    Now read #6 in relation.
    Does it make more sense?

    I was hoping somebody would get it, but apparently not. But I’ll play the bad guy, even though I was just helping to reinforce a point.

    Thanks, glad to hear I’m a psychopathic personality with a fixation on black male genitalia. Maybe text is a poor format for sarcasm, I was hoping it would get across without me being labeled a psycho.

  21. – Colmes is a prime example of FOX’s tried and true tactics. They always have really weakass “counter points” who is supposed to represent the anti-facsist viewpoint of the day. The bigoted Hannity is so much more competent than Colmes in every way. Even image-wise Colmes looks like he is on his death bed.

    So true……….Colmes is no more then a puppet. Hannity’s lil B%$@*!!!

    Colmes is just there for show……he really has no point at all. Fox news has the fakest liberals on TV.

    I swear that fool Murdock is the bigest pimp around.

  22. Hannity and Colmes represent the masses.

    How in the hell is Le Batard to be taken seriously on such a pandering show by merely raising the obvious?

    The belly of this country hated Vick before this case (Victory in Lambeau?) and definitely hate him ten fold now.

    We all know why some nullify our concerns of the coverage of the Vick case, so why the suprise?

    Dan, way to step up. To this day, I receive emails applauding your candor during our interview. Thanks for having some conviction on a show that has none.

    Very impressive.

  23. Great article jweiler as always.

    You have been on a roll man.

  24. Greg 8:

    I think Wilbon meant should in the “He’s pleaded guilty already, so this is what I expect him to get” sense.

  25. Mizzo#22

    “Dan, way to step up. To this day, I receive emails applauding your candor during our interview. Thanks for having some conviction on a show that has none.”

    Is that interview on your blog?

  26. GMP#20

    “Thanks, glad to hear I’m a psychopathic personality with a fixation on black male genitalia. Maybe text is a poor format for sarcasm, I was hoping it would get across without me being labeled a psycho.”

    When I saw your post #6, I thought you might be using the tool of sarcasm, but I wasn’t sure so I reacted as though you hadn’t. But if you’ll do a review of these boards, you’ll see why since you’re new here and undeclared, you wouldn’t get the automatic benefit of the doubt. Dudes like Boney and Friedman and many others have come here and said exactly the kind of thing you did with all seriousness.

  27. Excellent peice Jweiler….that Neal Boortz was on there at all is just laughable….and Colmes is a joke, just a joke.

    Mizzo,
    “The belly of this country hated Vick before this case (Victory in Lambeau?) and definitely hate him ten fold now.”

    Yeah…its been simmering for awhile, this just made it boil over.

  28. Greg at 1:32PM I could not disagree more.

    Your wrote: What saddens me more, however, and it might it be a bit off topic, is Michael Wilbon on the 2 Live Clow..I mean Stews, saying that ‘Mike should do a year jail time’. How can any responsible brother form his lips to say whether another blackman, short of rape, murder, assault, and ‘high level’ drug dealing, should do time? Knowing full well how we are already disproportionately represented in what is the most obvious example of systemic racism in this country?

    I am a responsible brother who thinks he can separate the systemic racism from individidual responsibility. The remedy for the proportion of black me in the corrections system is not to absolve punishment from individual behavior. I believe that so-called “responsible brothers” have to use a carrot and a stick. Doing time, any such punishment, is not limited to the serious crimes you list. Living within rules, punative ones at that, are part of a “free society” as Mr. Lebatard noted. The solution to disproportionate representation is not to lightly punish what you perceive to be minor offenses. I am not advocating a personal responsibility response that absolves the group based rememdy approach. I believe they both coexist and “responsible brothers” have to work on both principles.

    You are right, Vick is a first time offender, which is why he is not doing 3 to 4 years. He will likely get 14 -20 months from the court. I do not excuse him from prison because of racial disparities in justice. Decrying a disparate result and what many perceive as a biased justice system does not excuse “responsible brothers” from being critical and distinguishing which cases or situations are biased and which are just. The racial disparity tells me that the system is not always just, especially when it comes down to blacks, minorities and the poor. I do not think my response to that injustice can be to categorically reject justice imposed on blacks, minorities and the poor. We know an extraordinary amount of info about the Vick case. Everything in the indictment that he pled guilty to is enough to warrant his punishment. Recognizing this individual case of justice can be fair and that the system can still (at certain times) be extremely unfair (e.g., crack cocaine versus powder cocaine sentencing in the federal system), is not inconsistent. I think it shows maturity.

    If tomorrow the country made “responsible brothers” arbiters of all criminal and civil punishment for all brothers, I would hope we would create a system that tries to punish and reward and deter with fairness. In that system, I think time would be served for a lot more than just the serious crimes you identify. I would also hope that treatment and probation and rehabilitation and education would be used as well. But I hope we would never solve a group impact problem by excusing behavior. I would not want to live in such a society.

  29. KevDog-

    I prefer to remain ‘undeclared’. Better tool for balanced discussion, and I tend to play the devil’s advocate because, apparently, I like abuse.

    I may not be serious enough for discussions like this, so perhaps I’ll just stick to ‘Eli Sucks’ topics.

    Plus Temple is the one that really went off on me, not you, so it’s cool.

  30. Origin,
    Rupert Murdoch is straight gangsta…no one dares step outta line that is employed by Faux News.

  31. My apologies for the bold text. My cut and paste editor screwed up. I did not intend to highlight the entire comment in bold.

  32. Yeah miranda you are so true…….I heard that dude even has folks physically threaten people who don’t stay in line.

    Even Keith Olberman said that murdock B^%$# @ss threatened him back in the day. When he was on fox sports.

  33. My bad Kev, thought I provided the link. It’s there now.

  34. GMP –

    Don’t get your panties in a bunch. I missed the sar-chasm and thrust you into the abyss. Take the next elevator up and it should be all good. No harm, no foul.

  35. Panties?

    I’m going commando, baby.

  36. I applaud LeBatard for being brave enough to raise the subject – often a no-win one for a non-black columnist. But why does it take a LeBatard to write this column, instead of a nationally known black sports columnist like Michael ‘Where’s Da Party At?” Wilbon, whose columns on the Vick controversy have largely been meek, milquetoast, forgettable pieces that predictably add to piling on Vick, rather than do what LeBatard did and look beyond simplistic anti-Vick outrage?

  37. Uh, that’s what Wilbon does – regularly.

  38. Roggy damn, that was the truest….

  39. The federal prosecutors said that they sought a higher sentence for Vick because of the nature of the crimes. We have yet to be told exactly how involved Vick was in the day to day operations of the dog fighting ring, adn how many dogs he actually killed. MOre importantly, when Vick pleaded, he did not stipulate exactly how many dogs he killed or how he killed them. So to justify his sentence based on the indictment is ludicrous, when you should really look at the facts he admitted to in his plea agreement.

    However, Wilbon’s comment was stupid. He is arguing that despite the fact that Vick has no prior convictions he should be punished because we know he has been committing crimes for six years. That’s not how the system works. You can’t trumpet the system on one hand, and then ignore the system when it’s convienent. Unfortunately that’s the hypocritical stance most people take. They trumpet the “letter of the law” when the agree with the letter of the law and cry about the “spirit of the law” when they don’t agree with the law.

    It’s so obviously hypocritical it’s sad.

  40. Well, if LeBatard writes it, it isn’t a ‘Black’ thing anymore.
    Now people have to wonder, Is this a real issue?

    If Wilbon writes it, it is ‘just another black guy playing the race card’…see comment #1.

  41. Tiger woods better not EVER do nothing wrong…they’ll be talking about that for the next 100 years!

  42. mr. wilbon is not going to risk his big salary and star status by being odjective about mr. vick.

  43. KevDog, but you’ll notice I said it because some other hothead (mighta been you?) claimed that racism played into Joey Crawford ejecting Tim Duncan for laughing, when we all (should) know that Tim Duncan is one of the whinier players in the NBA, aside from being one of the best.

    I said I thought claiming racism in the Vick case may have been a bit of a reach, but I didn’t necessarily argue your points unless you got totally unrealistic, which shocker, you did anyway.

  44. GMP,
    Excellent point in #41.

  45. all in all though… good post jweiler

    i think the only thing that woulda been worse to see on the “panel of experts” woulda been to have Whitlock on there. I can only imagine the uproar this site woulda had… I think Dwil mighta had to kill someone if Whitlock came on there crying his blues.

  46. Miranda, they just made LeBatard black by proxy and blew it off anyway. That’s typically what happens.

  47. good piece, JW.

  48. “Now people have to wonder, Is this a real issue?”

    Rather than universalize and humanize these dolts by calling them “people,” let’s be VERY SPECIFIC about who they are. “People” don’t have to take this issue seriously because LeBatard is no the case…certain segments of a white supremacist collective may have to take it more seriously (or as Allen notes at #47 – they don’t have to take it seriously).

    GMP, I get your drift – but I wanted to flag the “language creep” on this one. Thanks for raising the issue.

  49. You think things are bad, and then the Times run this tripe.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/business/media/30adco.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

    Athletes gone wild? Really? REALLY!

  50. Listen people…straight up. Stop reading that bullshit. You could pretty much figure out the tenor of the piece by the first couple of lines–or even the title.

    Aren’t we frustrated enough? I know I am.

    You think people besides our resident trolls are reading TSF even though they live every day with a grand sense of conditioned abhorrence for black conviction?

    Hell no!

    Throw that shit in the trash! That’s the biggest statement we all can make.

  51. It is extremely disappointing to read LeBatard, as usual. Mr. Other Side of the Coin, or, Mr Feather is no better than the people who call “race card,” on the side of “the hammer.”

    Anyone who consistently speaks of racism as past, which LeBatard did repeatedly in this column and refers to it today only as “personal experiences” should be excoriated for his liberal-ness. He gets no love for me.

    Remember folks, this is a man who, on PTI, cheered the rumor that Fidel Castro had died – and I know his parents were monied Cubans who fled because their shit was being nationalized (see Hugo Chavez and his opponents).

    Then, when discussing the court system as being unjust to black people, to have the nerve to write:

    Our experiences always shape our perspectives. We saw it with O.J. Simpson. Blacks were so thrilled to finally beat what they saw as an unfair system — a system that jails them at a disproportionate rate — that the thrill of winning ignored even someone getting away with murder.

    Look, it is not a f***ing, ha ha joke: O.J. Simpson was found not guilty in a criminal court of law. Period.

    Beyond all the evidence pointing to Simpson’s innocence, like the fact that he could barely lift his 50 lb. son to the height of his own face – and that even a “crazed coked-out nigger” as Simpson was implied to be that night could not have inflicted as many wounds were found on the two bodies in the period of time given,
    read this:
    http://www.moldea.com/Fuhrman.html.

  52. GMP, I can see your point (post #41). But what’s the real point of being a black sports columnist who enjoys widespread mainstream acceptance – as Wilbon does – if you’re not willing to use that platform to go out on a limb occasionally? If you self-censor yourself from raising issues that need to be raised because you’re terrified that a segment might accuse you of “playing the race card”? It doesn’t seem to bother LeBatard to do so and I appreciate the integrity he’s shown by using HIS mainstream status to raise the “Vick and black reaction” issue – and risk some of HIS popularity with some readers and sports fans

  53. Great post again Allen. Why in the world is lance briggs name mentioned.

    Also with the bagg pants my grandfather said that it did remind him also about how they treated blacks with the zoot suits.

    As far as the pants being baggy that has more to do with taking the big pants look to the extreme then with prison culture. I remember in the early 90s when white boys who were skate boarding wore large pants that that covered their shoes and sagged. Then I remember graffiti artist/ taggers / hip hoppers (true heads with the backpacks and all) began wearing clothes similar. Then by the the late 90s the shirt sizes and pant sizes went to a nother level with the size.

    It reminds me of how in the early 90’2 people with rims drove with 14 inch that was big. By the late 90’s people were driving on 17 and 18 inch rims. The new milinium came then kids were riding with 20 and 22 inch rims. Now they ride on 27 and 28 inche rims. Its just a cycle of taking stuff to the extreme.

    White media and the C$%ns that follow along with this sky is falling crap are ignorant.

  54. D I was giving the man props for the here and now. You know full well that I’ve had major problems with some of Dan’s opinions…he knows it too. He could have ran with the pack on the show but responsibly chose otherwise.

  55. Sorry for any misspelling in my post. Hit submit before proof reading.

  56. D,

    Lebatard’s take on the Vick case is dead on. And honestly the OJ thing is weird because some people DID cheer because he ‘stuck it to the man’ and ‘got away with one’. Never mind the ineptitude of Marcia Clark and Chris Dardon…

    I think we’ve all said things that can be construed as inappropriate or insensitive or just plain wrong in our collective pasts. However, on this Dan is right. The outrage from Black people just seems to piss Whites off even more. And I think Dan did a good job in at least trying to see it from OUR eyes. That’s a perspective no white journalist ever tries to have in sports.

  57. From LeBatard:

    “Vick couldn’t have known dogfighting had consequences this large or he wouldn’t have been doing it.”

    KevDog said the exact same thing in his concise and accurate rejection of Scoop Jackson’s latest piece of drivel. Jackson thought Vick was stupid because he didn’t follow “The Perfect Nigga Script.” Sometimes stupid isn’t as stupid does…sometimes stupid is as powerful/”smart”/decider says stupid is.

    The only perfect nigga is a dead nigga…never forget and learn the rules so you can break ‘em when ya have to.

  58. GrandNubian Says:

    Dwil,

    The link you posted is not working.

  59. GrandNubian Says:

    However, if you go to http://www.moldea.com and click on “Fuhrman’s lies”, the page will open up.

  60. Aone, Mizzo-
    First, I’m not talking to anyone directly. Second, very few who advocated for OJ while that case was happening was thinking he was guilty. People were not, at the time of the case, saying he I hope he gets away with this because he’s black… now, it is “cool” to say he got away with one – but it’s not reality.

    And as far as giving a Cuban dude a pass? He’s Cuban when it’s appropriate, and he’s white when it’s appropriate – and Mizzo, you and I have discussed that fact to death. Aone, just the fact that you ID him as WHITE says it all.

    He is not consistent in his verbiage and is not consistent in his perspective. And it’s real easy to go on Fox and pick up a check for taking an opposing viewpoint – that takes no guts at all.

    So, how is this fool gettin’ points for “trying?”

    JWeiler is trying. And he’ss doing a damn good job of showing that if you think critically about yourself in relation to the world around you, you can extricate yourself from the templates set up for you.

  61. Teej Says:
    August 30th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    ‘Doing time, any such punishment, is not limited to the serious crimes you list. Living within rules, punative ones at that, are part of a “free society” as Mr. Lebatard noted. The solution to disproportionate representation is not to lightly punish what you perceive to be minor offenses. I am not advocating a personal responsibility response that absolves the group based rememdy approach. I believe they both coexist and “responsible brothers” have to work on both principles. ‘

    WTF?!

    Teej ALSO Says:

    ‘You are right, Vick is a first time offender, which is why he is not doing 3 to 4 years. He will likely get 14 -20 months from the court. I do not excuse him from prison because of racial disparities in justice. ‘

    You ever heard of PROBATION, Bro? Not to mention the man has already suffered PLENTY. What noble purpose will doing hard time serve for a man who isn’t a hardened criminal, sir?

    What?

  62. Greg,
    I’m still shaking my head on that too.

  63. Roggy says: “I applaud LeBatard for being brave enough to raise the subject – often a no-win one for a non-black columnist. But why does it take a LeBatard to write this column, instead of a nationally known black sports columnist like Michael ‘Where’s Da Party At?” Wilbon, whose columns on the Vick controversy have largely been meek, milquetoast, forgettable pieces that predictably add to piling on Vick, rather than do what LeBatard did and look beyond simplistic anti-Vick outrage?”

    Because Le Batard benefits from the privilege of his lighter skin and therefore, for racist reasons of course, carries more weight to a largely white public. I agree with GMPs assessment that the EXACT same comments from Wilbon would carry less weight. Wilbon, like virtually all black mainstream sportswriters, are put in THAT box.

    After spending some time roaming the ESPN Conversation Virtual Mobs, I’ve come to have a much greater appreciation for some of the more mainstream African-American journalists. The environment that they work in is simply brutal and thankless from just about every possible angle. There are generally three categories. 1) Push a very limited envelope to its edge; 2) Be apolitical (John Saunders); or 3) be a straight-up sellout (i.e. Whitlock). I think, overall, Wilbon is an asset to the field, but has a very deliberate strategy to get heard by some of his overwhelmingly biased white audience. TSF has its own very different strategy that I have also come to have incredible respect for. I think that different strategies can often complement, and not necessarily compete, with one another.

    Kevdog, I saw your beatdown of Jemele Hill in the other thread and left it alone since it wasn’t my fight, and perhaps, I’m not even qualified to comment on (which may still very well apply here). But since it is related, let me wade in now. On one level, I respected where you were coming from and your logic too. But on the other hand, I asked myself this question: “Is the sports field better off with or without the likes of a Jemele or Wilbon?” I sincerely believe the latter. The straight-up bigots will continue to be bigots. But what about some sincerely fair-minded people in the middle who are being daily poisoned by so many of the white sportswriting biases? IMO, many readers suffer less from “hate-driven bias” but moreso “ignorance-driven bias” based off of hearing one-side of a story.

    Sadly, many of these people never even heard critiques of “golden boys” like Brett Favre or Roger Clemens until one of Hill’s articles. Unless it is a guest appearance from the good doctor Richard Lapchick you probably won’t get a Wimbeldon tribute article about Althea Gibson or a probable INTRODUCTORY mention of The Jena Six. I have many bones to pick with Jemele Hill (or even Wilbon), but I would rather have Hill out there (warts, Vick-hating, and all) on page 2 than have Skip Bayless get his old Page 2 job back.

    Of course this does NOT mean that we can’t use more Ralph Wileys; or that Wilbon, Hill, or journalists of any color should “get a pass” when they slip up (intentionally or not); or that there shouldn’t be mechanisms in place, such as the valuable role of TSF, to keep mainstream writers honest.

  64. Once again, Uncle Ruckus has done it…

    http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7170510.

  65. Modi #66.

    The differential treatment of Le Batard v. Wilbon seems completely understood by those here and it is also completely explained by Professor Bell’s rules of racial standing which I posted on another thread in an earier conversation.

    Regarding Ms. Hill. First I want to say that I had no intention of rendering her a beatdown, or even to engage in an adversarial conversation with her. I had what I felt were legitimate gripes with her column and expressed them, in an apparently, although unintentionally contentious manner, she responded in kind and things seemed to escalate. The fault was probably both of ours. Mine for being perhaps too strident and didactic and her in being perhaps too sensitive and defensive.

    In any case, I do believe, as I think I stated several times that her position pretty much requires her to sell out to an extent. She took offense, but it is simply reality as she is truly, deeply, in the mouth of the racist machine.

    In answer to your question regarding WIlbon and Ms. Hill. I do believe they do some good and they negotiate a difficult terrain pretty well. However, their ability to be effective seems hampered to a significant degree by lack of knowledge base, lack of exposure to the ideals and theories that encompass this field of social science and lack of ability to negotiate around the language in a manner which would allow them to be more clear about the issues they feel a need to address. In short, I can think of several here who, because of a lack of these limitations, could do their jobs more effectively while managing, IMO, the ability to placate the racist machine-ESPN-that writes their paychecks.

    My hope in the dialogue with Ms. Hill was that she’d take some of what I said to heart in order to become even more effective and better at her job. As to Mr. Wilbon, I think he’s too far gone, too enamored of the glitz and glamour associated with hanging with celebrities. I mean, let’s face it, when your hero is Michael-Republicans buy shoes too-Jordan, there isn’t much hope for you is there?

  66. If you can’t get to it from here, go to the Fox Sports site.
    Sorry.

  67. Kevdog,

    “The differential treatment of Le Batard v. Wilbon seems completely understood by those here and it is also completely explained by Professor Bell’s rules of racial standing which I posted on another thread in an earier conversation.”

    Sorry if I was overly-didactic. But more importantly, can you re-post Dr. Bell’s rules of racial standing…

    “In short, I can think of several here who, because of a lack of these limitations, could do their jobs more effectively while managing, IMO, the ability to placate the racist machine-ESPN-that writes their paychecks.”

    This is probably true.

    “My hope in the dialogue with Ms. Hill was that she’d take some of what I said to heart in order to become even more effective and better at her job.”

    That is also my hope.

  68. I hope Whitlock feels good about all the back-slapping he’s getting from the same people that would hang him up on a tree in a second.

    He should be ashamed of himself. He is pissing on the graves of those that gave him the opportunity to even be allowed to right. And I hope he pays dearly for that.

  69. I just read that Whitlock article and I want to vomit.

  70. Wow I swear Whitlock needs to go on tour with Rev Jesse Lee Patterson.

    That Fat piece of Shh Whitlock is even worse then a C%$N.

    This fool takes self hate to another level.

    Wow I am still shaking my head about the article.

    Calling him Uncle Rukus isn’t even fair. Whitlock is like that black clansman on the dave chapelle show.

  71. GrandNubian Says:

    MODI,

    If Whitlock’s article made you vomit, then I know I don’t want to read it.

  72. Hey Dwil or jweiler can you guys interview that fool Whitlock? I would like to know what he has to say to some of you guys questions.

    Man he makes Armstrong williams look pro black.

  73. Modi, Orgin

    I KNEW enough to not click on the fools article. I don’t want to hav e to get my shot gun and go on a hunt for boar.

  74. If you thought that was bad, per Drew Sharp, only Oprah can
    save Michael Vick. No joke.

  75. Modi

    “Sorry if I was overly-didactic.”

    Not in the least bit bruh

    But more importantly, can you re-post Dr. Bell’s rules of racial standing…

    FIRST RULE
    The law grants litigants standing to come into court based on their having sufficient personal interest and involvement in the issue to justify judicial congnizance. Black people (while they may be able to get into court) are denied such standing legitimacy in the world generally when they discuss their negative experiences with racism or even when they attempt to give a positive evaluation of another black person or of his work. No matter what their experience or expertise, blacks’ statements involving race are deemed ‘special pleading’ and thus not entitled to serious consideration.

    SECOND RULE
    Not only are blacks’ complaints discounted, but black victims of racism are less effective witnesses than are whites, who are members of the oppressor class. This phenomenon reflects a widespread assumption that blacks, unlike whites, cannot be objective on racial issues and will favor their own no matter what. This deep seated belief fuels a continuing effort – despite all manner of Supreme Court decisions intended to curb the practice – to keep black people off juries in cases involving race. Black judges hearing racial cases are eyed suspiciously and sometimes asked to recuse themselves in favor of a white judge – without those making the request even being aware of the paradox in their motions.

    THIRD RULE
    Few blacks avoid diminishment of racial standing, most of their statements abot racial condidtions being diluted and their recommendations of other blacks taken with a grain of salt. The ususal exception to this rule is the black person who publicly disparages or criticizes other blacks who are speaking or acting in ways that upset whites. Instantly, such statements are granted ‘enhanced standing’ even when the speaker has no special expertise or experience in the subject he or she is criticizing.

    FOURTH RULE
    When a black person or group makes a statement or takes an action that the white community or vocal components thereof deem “outrageous,” the latter will actively recruit blacks willing to refute the statement or condemn the action. Blacks who respond to the call to condemnation will receive superstanding status. The blacks who refuse to be recruited will be interpreted as endorsing the statements and action and may suffer political or economic reprisals.

    FIFTH RULE
    True awareness requires an understanding of the Rules of Racial Standing. As an individuals understanding of these rules increases, there will be more and more instances where one can discern their workings. Using this knowledge, one gains the gift of prophesy about racism, its essence, its goals, even its remedies. The price of this knowledge is the frustration that follows recognition that no amount of public prophesy, no matter its accuracy, can either repeal the Rules of Racial Standing nor prevent their or prevent their operation.

    Unfortunately for Mr. Le Batard, looks like he simply got de-moted and that was that!

  76. Whitlock is insane… I really can’t believe this dude. so Swollen eye = 22 years??? yeah okay

  77. Just cause I luv ya’ll so much, a little something to wipe away the stench of Chitlin lips.

    My favorite musican and the greatest jazz trumpet player who ever lived

  78. And what do you know the fat piece of crap whitlock pulls Jesse and Al out of his @ss. Doesn’t this Fat MF, know that Jesse and Al are late to this event like many other.

    They are the only reason the white media even covers crap like this. Man black folks and some whites have been on this Jena 6 for months. Its been stuff all on blogs and youtube. Jesse and Al have just finally got off their butts and doing something about it. But the foundation was layed months ago by regular folks. Same way how regular folks not Jesse and Al marched on that little town her in texas. About the young black girl that was doing 7 years for pushing a teacher.

    Also what is that fool talking about there hasn’t been any media attention on Jena 6. Just because in the back of the chicago suntimes its a 200 word article on this crap. Thats not media attention. Where is Oprah, CNBC, FOXNEWS, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS. No where to be found. Just because Hill and whitlock mention it in a rambling article doesn’t mean that the media as a whole are covering it.

    I swear I hope that SOB chokes on a pork chop.

    C&^ning might not be easy. but watching whitlock it must pay well.

  79. Whitlock is insane… I really can’t believe this dude. so Swollen eye = 22 years??? yeah okay

    Whilock – ” If Massa say they deserve 22 years then they deserve 22 years.”

    Too bad Whilocks neck wasn’t attached to that noose hung from that tree.

  80. more gems from Sir Greasy Lips (aka Mr. Chitlins)…

    on Vick:

    “White racism is our kryptonite. It’s our excuse for nearly every malady. It’s our excuse to deflect and remain in denial. Within minutes of Vick’s guilty plea, ESPN’s Doug Stewart could be seen and heard shouting on TV that because the police walked in the Rodney King beating, black people believe Vick is being dealt with too harshly.”

    “More pertinent to the Vick case, we have a black youth culture — hip hop — that is in crisis, self-destructive, filled with self-hatred and celebratory of criminality. We, black folks, must stand up and object to this culture, redirect this culture, or there will be more Michael Vicks.”

    hmmmm there it is… HIP HOP yep, I knew it.

  81. Orgin #82

    “Too bad Whilocks neck wasn’t attached to that noose hung from that tree.”

    Word.

    Chuck D said it best

    Every brother ain’t a brother
    Cause a Black hand
    Squeezed on Malcom X the man
    The shootin’ of Huey Newton
    From a hand of a Nigger who pulled the trigger

  82. So are black people doing this??

    Are are these white people that love hip hop?

    http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/animal_fighting_the_final_round/hog_dog_fighting.html

  83. Origin. I’ve interviewed Whitlock before he went straight crazy. I’ve contacted him several times. He sure is hell isn’t returning my calls now. Trust.

  84. GrandNubian Says:

    KevDog,

    Don’t forget the verse before the one you mentioned from Chuck D:

    Every brother aint a brother
    Cuz a color just as well can be undercover

  85. Mizzo #86

    LOL, are you serious? He won’t return your calls? Was he the one here who posted as Jason? If so, I can see why. He pretty much got beat down on a regular. Man dude was so full of black hatred it was simply unbelievable.

  86. GN #87.
    I know, I know. The previous verse was more appropos, but damn, the phrase I posted was just so damn TIGHT!

  87. GrandNubian Says:

    LOL@KD….

    Yeah, I agree. That verse was tight, god!

  88. The whole damn song is tight… Chuck kills it. Sadly the song is appropriate for 1967, 77, 87, 97 and 2007.

  89. Thanks Mizzo……he has no need to speak to you. His message isn’t meant for us. He fullfills the fantasy of every good ole boy. He says in public what they wish they had the balls to say in public.

    Its big money in c##ning……I swear if I am ever hard up for money. F corporate america, I will just come out with a book saying black folks got rabbit blood. Then when that book becomes a best seller. Mo money mo money. I will be all over TV and radio. Can’t you see me on oprah pushing my book. Getting the full support of Oprah. I will be all on CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN.

    Can’t you see me on ESPN countdown.

    “Well Chris and Tom the reason why TO acts like this is because he has rabbit blood. Also don’t forget to buy your copy of black people got rabit blood.”

  90. Hilarious origin…

    By the way, the hogdogging stuff is disgusting. That’s even worse than the dogfighting because those pigs don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of defending themselves. It’s all phukkin’ absurd. People need to truly snap out of it.

    When you see shit like this, you wanna back the truck up to the pen and Free Slick Rick, Free Mike Vick and everybody else. This perpetual question of External Validity will be the undoing of this nation because it is the foundation of this nation. Dust to dust.

  91. KD I’ve been banging Fear of a Black Planet incessantly the last couple of days–especially Terrodome and Brothas Gonna Work It Out.

  92. KD,

    Thank You. I needed that.

  93. Speaking of BGWIO. When that song hit…

    I’ll never forget the craziness happening in VA Beach that Labor Day. We were actually sleeping outside in the hallways eluding the ridiculous police presence.

    No vacancy signs went up all over the place.

    We were just chasing all those Hampton lovelies having a good ole time and the cops thought it was something else.

    Or did they?

  94. Mizzo,

    Would that make TSF an anti-nigger machine? :-)

  95. “This perpetual question of External Validity will be the undoing of this nation because it is the foundation of this nation. Dust to dust.”

    D@MN D@MN D@MN……….you put it down there Temple.

  96. I can only surmise that Whitlock’s mom just didn’t hug him at all.

  97. Aone #91

    1627-2007, as right as rain….

  98. Orgin #92

    “Well Chris and Tom the reason why TO acts like this is because he has rabbit blood. Also don’t forget to buy your copy of black people got rabit blood.”

    LOLOLOLOL!

  99. Mizzo #94 and 96

    Welcome to the Terrordome was THE hit of the album, but BGWIO was absolutely THE SOUL of the album. One of my favorite of all times.

  100. When Im talkin rhyme time
    To blow your mind time some say
    Its nothing worse than a verse
    To hear some nigger curse
    They call me rude some dudes fiery attitude
    Claimin I boast and smoke
    And sometimes sing the blues
    I twang metal and settle
    Try to never back pedal
    From the power some got
    To get a nigger shot
    The null and void I avoid
    I test the paranoid
    Never had to be bad
    My mama raised me mad
    So what I got is hot
    I love my life a lot
    Im never sad just glad
    Thats why I thank my dad
    Once they never gave a fuck about
    What I said
    Now they listen and they want my head

    Instead of peace the police
    Just wanna wreck and flex
    On the kid
    What I did was try to be the best
    So they fingered the trigger
    Figured I was a bigger nigger
    And started to search
    An so I headed west
    Went to cally a rally
    Was for a brothers death
    It was the fuzz who shot him
    An not da blood or cuzz
    I wondered why it was like
    So I just held my mike
    But in my mind I was blind
    So I just tried to find
    A reason we was quick
    Just the way that we was
    So I just stayed in the crib
    Until I got a buzz…

    Goodnessss….

  101. Des #95

    I hope you’re talking about brother Clifford. And you’re welcome.

  102. Des #97

    Ha!

  103. Miranda #99

    A mother’s love can only go so far!

  104. Mizzo #103

    Damn, Chuck broke HARD!

  105. Mizzo:

    From a lesson unlearned in Virginia
    and re-taught in Nevada
    Same black faces
    temps a bit hotter

  106. While the Jena 6 has been all over blogs for months and was covered by the BBC and China before most mainstream media outlets in America covered it, I had not seen it on any mainstream media SPORTS outlets until Jemele Hill’s article a couple of days ago. My guess is that her timing may have even been possibly influenced by the discussion one day earlier on this very website. I would also guess that Whitlock’s timing was a direct response to Hill’s article. Whitlock has a history of defending racism after another black sportswriter points it out(see last year after Scoop Jackson wrote article about only 1.3% of editors being black).

    Kevdog, thanks for the rules. I just dug up an old book by Dr. Bell (Faces at the Bottom of the Well) and realized that I read them many years ago but forgot them since. I guess info in rules 3 and 4 apply mostly to Hill. Perhaps her violations are in a pragmatic, yet misguided attempt to not have rules #1 and #2 apply to her.

  107. While you’re digging in your Dr. Bell crates, see if you can set your hands on And We Are Not Saved.

  108. Origin,
    Rabbit blood?? LMAO!!!!!!

    Kevdog,
    I know but…I’m trying to be like the MSM and find some psychological, emotional reason for his issues and put his rage in a greater context. It would be too easy to just say he’s a sadistic genetic flaw like they do other minorities.

  109. Mizzo,

    I’ve gotta go home and listen to mine again, followed
    by Apocalypse ’91…The Enemy Strikes Black.

    ” The future holds nothing else but confrontation…”

  110. KD,

    Most def, it’s about Mr. Brown. I’m gonna play that for
    my wife.

  111. T3…sounds like a rock-solid premise, but I’ll have to hit Amazon on that one… …hopefully there will be a chapter about the 5 strategies for punishing journalists who ruthlessly manipulate the 5 rules of racial standing to get a gig on Fox…

  112. How about this for a title?

    How Do You Sell Soul to a Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul???

    Of all the athletes and celebrities I’ve come in contact with, the only time I’ve been starstruck was interviewing Chuck.

    ” The future holds nothing else but confrontation…”

    Des, I live by that line.

    You better nod ya head to Nation of Millions first bruh!

    Damn where’s my Pittsburgh Pirates hat…

    Modi, I agree with you about Whitlock’s response to Jemele. That’s what he does.

    Jason bring ya ass to TSF and stop runnin!

    Damn, the nerve of some people ;)

  113. The strategy is to ELIMINATE their oppportunities for any and all discourse with ALL Black athletes…from the perfect and the pristine to the loquacious and comedic to the murderous and maniacal…No muhphukkin’ comment, byatch!! Now bacdafucup!

    The template?? – Rasheeeeeeeeeeeeeed. “Both teams played hard.” “Git on deez nuts, I’m out.”

  114. Speaking of old rap, where is the good stuff now?
    Sure as hell isn’t on the radio. Stuff on the radio now sounds like the cheesy shit you used to hear white people in 90’s sitcoms or commercials come up with.

    I’ve been meaning to pick up PE, but it was a bit before my time, before my ‘rap phase’. Haven’t had a chance to pick up some of the ‘classic’ late 80’s early 90’s stuff.

  115. GMP PE is still making CDs. Check the underground hip hop out. They have a new CD that just came out. That mainstream stuff is garbage and corporation run. Same with all these black stations owned by Clear Channel.

    Kats like CL Smooth, X Clan, Lord Jamar, KRS-ONE, Chubb Rock, Paris, DeLa Soul and Coup still make positive CDs. Plus new kats like Dead Prez, C-rayz Walz, Mr. Lif, Zion I and a whole lot more kats are making good music. Just turn off Clear Channel and viacom.

    Underground hip hop is real hip hop.

  116. KevDog,

    I guess what I should have said was if your going to have a discussion regarding a certain race and how they view a particular subject and you have access to that race of people as fox does then you should include them on your panel since their opinion is in question. I guess however, Dan L. is an ok since he is cuban and I certainly agree with you about Jweiler and my boy Zirin they are certainly qualified to speak for us as they understand the plight of minorities. I also agree with you that we don’t want some uncle Tom jackass speaking for us simply because his skin is dark. This entire discussion isn’t about white against black, it’s just about keeping it real and judging all men the same. Can’t we all just get along?

  117. Mizzo has an interview with Chuck D. on his site you guys should check it out. It was a cool conversation.

  118. Got a fair amount of underground some of what you named. Just verifying the commercial side is, indeed, quite dead. I only hit up radio when my wife has it on. Thought something worthwhile may have snuck through while I wasn’t paying attention.

    Guess not.

    I did read something on Chuck D recently, maybe Mizzo’s. Who knows? I get bored at work and randomly look up stuff that sparks an interest. Hence why I’m here not really adding to the conversation. Sorry.

  119. Kids in the crib want dibs on the big man
    Can he come out? Can he come out and slam a jam?

  120. Well coming back
    To nineteen ninety
    Chubb rock jumps up on the scene with a lean and a hardcore dream
    The dream wasn’t crafted to be pornographic
    Decency started from the crib, plus kids
    Dont need to hear all of that on the rap
    The strength of my vibe placed chubbs on the map

  121. Paul-

    Can’t we all just get along?

    Funny thing is, people get way too caught up on the differences. In my experience, all young men want the same things. Hell, they even go about it in much the same way. Not sure why Black men get perceived with the drug thing more than white guys. I honestly thought as a teenager that weed was a white thing. Everybody smoked it.

    During my younger years of partying/clubbing/hanging everybody did the same stuff. Get a group of people from the barracks piled in the car and let’s go to Mexico. Way too much for this space, and some of the attitudes/activities of younger men would be quite offensive/embarrassing now, but it suffices to say, when it comes to play time we all go about it the same way in my experience. But whatever, not everyone goes in with the same attitude, white,black or hispanic. We all have hang ups and some people are never adult enough to get over them.

  122. Been also pumpin Find a Way by Tribe, 1-9-9-9 by Common and Sadat X, Respiration by Blackstar, Hip Hop and Rock and Roll by Mos.

  123. GMP and others check this site out.

    http://www.undergroundhiphop.com

    and here is the public enemy stuff.

    http://www.undergroundhiphop.com/store/searchresults.asp

  124. origin-

    Thanks for the links.
    Time to go home… but stuff to check out for tomorrow. The day is long, and why work if I can avoid it?

  125. GMP

    I feel you, sometimes you just wish it was a better world so black folks didn’t have 2 get high blood pressure because of dealing with shit like this. We are all the same inside.

  126. [...] Release the Hounds With a Hat Tip to The Big Lead, we get this extraordinary segment from Fox News, courtesy of Newshounds, whose mission […] [...]

  127. SportsDiva Says:

    Origin @ 92…LMFBAO!!!! I can see that in comedy sketch form in my head right now. Great stuff.

    …and picturing what the cover of the book would be…still LMFAO!!!! You could release it and FOX news would never get that it was satire, much like Stephen Colbert at that WH Press Corp dinner.

  128. I apologize in advance if I am repeating any of the points already stated, it is late and I did not read all of the comments(will tomorrow).

    Just wanted to add that I think it is ridiculous when people claim to hold a moral high ground on the subject of dog fighting, while still endorsing hunting as “sport.” I believe Marbury mentioned this, only to get roasted in the press, once again without mention of his many efforts to aid the urban poor. (Compared to dogs, the urban poor is irrellevant)

    Also, I think it is important to note the coverage this case and others get on Fox, CNN etc. If these outlets would report on guilty pleas of major corporations in federal court, they would have much more news time. Not to mention the slap on the wrist punishments for these (almost entirely white) guys.

    Of course you all know how ridiculous it is that a black man stealing one hundred dollars at gunpoint gets 25 years. The local news is more than willing to report that one, but when Exxon Mobile pleads guilty to environmental crimes, it deserves only a passing mention despite the millions of dollars in damage to taxpayers, and the immense loss of animal life. But when a black man was responsible for animal life, it was so utterly awful and “heinous”. Now it is just the way things are.

    I saw some discussion on how much time Vick deserves, and anywhere from 6 months to two years is OK with me(before all is said and done, he will get out early–I would hope). But to me this is all irrellevant if it is not juxtaposed with how much more impact on society corporate crime has, and how much more prevalant it is. And here is the kicker.

    There is no discussion on WHY corporate crime is more prevalant. We are lucky to know that it actually exists. Corporations are required by law to put the financial interests of their stockholders ahead of the interests of the general public and anything they value, for material or intrinsic purposes. Basically, they are required by law to break the law. While Whitlock can ramble on about rap music or some shit as the cause for Vicks actions, White CEOs are required to make money for their white stockholders at the expense of all working people, many of whom are black, and not a word.

    Imagine if OTL did a story daily on the gross abuses of human rights by corporations sponsoring NFL football. PTI, ATH, every one of them on the destruction of species all the corporations have admitted to participating in. They do not even need to dive into the grey area of ALLEGATIONS (their COVERAGE of Vicks case before a guilty plea were the truely heinous act(s)) of corporate crime. If the unproven claims were treated like Vicks, imagine the consequences.

    I could have written this better, but thanks to those who read through my groggy state of mind.

    You all do great work at this site, keep it up.

  129. SportsDiva Says:

    Off22, nice connection.

    Corporate criminals are indeed the THUGS of this society and it is important to note, that they kill all kinds of animals on this planet on a daily, including us. (not to mention the planet itself)

  130. KEVDOG, I would like to humbly retract my earlier statements in defense of Ms. Hill. I was wrong. I never actually read her “open letter” MV article. It is inexusable and can ONLY be interpreted as either a blatant act of careerism OR a truly mindboggling lack of awareness as to her role and writer responsibilities. As for the first possibility, given the damage her article incurs, just about any response flung her way is still far disproportional to “the crime”. As for the latter, her punishment should be to be sentenced to reading each and every one of those 1700+ comments that she helped to perpetuate in the “ESPN Conversation”. I can only hope that she redeems herself somewhere down the line.

  131. Yeah, I saw that clip via “Crooks and Liars” I think. Just amazing that Boortz is on….and has his goddamn dog……as though other people who wonder that just perhaps Michael Vick may not be guilty don’t have dogs or are evil or something. Like the guy some of my fellow protesters talked to the other day at the Iraq protest. We were on the corner and so of course it was evening, people had their windows down, there was one guy who’d engage people (personally, I think it’s best to let the signs do the talking unless they ask me, but whatever). So he asks one dude, what do you think about the war? The guys goes, “What do you think? I’m an American.” No one said anything in response. I said dryly out of the side-of-my-mouth to some other protesters, well, I guess we’re not Americans…..and as a white person, I fully agree with LeBatard on this….it’s the same reason I don’t take a position on whether people should use the “n” word. It’s not my fight. Unfortunately, we white people even introduced this whole notion of race and the “n” word. So when I hear Andy Rooney saying that he doesn’t feel like using the term African-American, I kind of think-look, you ain’t black. You ain’t got a dog in this fight (oops, poor choice of words). If black people want to use the word, if they don’t, it’s up to them….it’s not an argument white people, myself included, should even be involved in.

    Have to admit, I was surprised by LeBatard. He generally seems like a moron when he hosts PTI. He annoys me….but he got this. It’s ridiculous that he can mention that FUX News is hosting a segment on the racial element of the Vick incident and Colmes, the FUX News useful idiot, gets upset. He’s like the in-the-closet conservative, the houseboy for FAUX. He’s such a tool. FUX is hosting the segment about the notion of race and then he claims that LeBatard is “injecting race”. What a dick.

  132. MODI #134

    LOL, having her read the comments she inspired/provoked is absolutely BRILLIANT! Perhaps then she’ll begin to understand exactly what’s what. Takes a big person to retract in public. Props!

  133. TC #135

    The whole N word dialogue is simply stupid s@#t. As you correctly point out , white folks ain’t got a dog in the fight and when they go all bonkers on how WE use the word, their simply trying to either deflect, or worse, to once again tell US how WE should feel, act, behave. I come from a time- born 1963, and place- South Central LA, where that word had about 30 different meanings ranging from fighting words as in “Punk ass” to exclaimation “N……please” to term of brotherhood “My N……..”

    But I tell you what it never, ever meant. It never meant “I’m superior to you because of the color of your skin or your features.” It never meant “Stay in your place because you aren’t as fully human or as fully American as I am.”

    So you’re right. I can’t get all on the Oprah tip and try to get rid of the word. I use it occasionally when talking to certain people and I’ll continue to do so. Ain’t no thang but a chicken wang.

    As to FUX news. For real though. here’s how I judge white liberals. Dudes like Colmes is a danger. He’s all liberal up to the point when you try to tell him that he might not be the great white savior or that black folks think of things differently than he does. Then he goes all buck wild because ultimately, his ego CAN’T let go of the notion that because he’s white, we should defer to him. Then there are dudes like you and JWeil. We may diagree on various issues, but you don’t think apriori that YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. In fact, you recognize, that given our experiences, that we might actually have insight that you don’t. And that is the difference in a nutshell. F-Colmes because he’d sell us out in a heartbeat. But you’ll be there in any fight that’s the right fight to be in and I can respect that. Dig?

  134. KD, I do honestly believe if she read that column’s comments that it really would beat her down. I recently chronicled a MILD Vick column (http://www.cosellout.com/?p=100) and it beat the shit out of me!

    TC, Le Batard purposely dumbs himself down for PTI since it is a more entertainment show. He is much more effective when he is writing columns because he is introspective, challenges convention, and even hypocrisies in his own profession. He usually nails his ESPN mag column. He was the only mainstream writer to raise the fact that race may have been a plausible factor when Steve Nash edged Shaq for his first MVP award. Although a solid and thoughtful column he got absolutely killed for it by other mainstream writers (not to mention Charles Barkely).

  135. KevDog-yeah, that’s basically how I see it. Gotta say, being born in Britain…it’s just different from America. I mentioned this before one time, but during the First World War (a hell of a long time ago) the US gub’mint asked French government to not be too nice to black folks who…..you know……actually fought for their country even while…you know….they was being lynched by the hundreds at “home”. So I just come from a little different background. Not saying things is perfect for black folks or East Indians back home, but it’s definitely better than in this country. Anyway…yeah, damn right I don’t have all the answers….that’s what amazes me…and embarasses me about how white folks won’t call out a dude like Andy Rooney or whatever other dipshit says something like that. Black folks generally call out their own when they do something that many black folks feel might cast black folks in a bad light. White people practically endorse anything, regardless of how ignorant or racist it is, that another white person does (in America at least-stuff does get called out in Britain and so it really doesn’t happen as much). But yeah, we don’t have a dog in that fight (no pun intended). I don’t see how commentators get off mentioning that when, like that picture above shows (and I agree) I’m much more scared by some dude in a suit with a PalmPilot than a black dude. And yeah, I don’t know it all. It’s why I call out fellow white people who claim they do…..coz if you claim that, well, you just lyin’. Anyway..

    MODI-hmmm…..that’s interesting about LeBatard…..I’ve wondered about him before, maybe I’ve read a couple decent things, but I used to get ESPN mag and I gotta say, I wasn’t that impressed by dude….oh well…..to go to the Axis of Evil News and not back down to all those wackjobs has given me new respect for him.

  136. [...] – Five to Live By Professor Derrick Bell’s Five Rules of Racial Standing  (thanks to KevDog, regular poster over at TSF).  Please note that these rules do not apply merely to the law.  The [...]

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