Eli vs. Tiki

I have mostly refrained from talking about New York sports, in spite of (or maybe because of) the fact that I am a New York sports fan. But, I couldn’t resist saying something about the recent dust-up between Eli Manning and Tiki Barber. It started when Tiki said, on NBC Sunday night, that Eli struggled to assert himelf as a leader:

“He hasn’t shown [ability to lead],” Barber said on the broadcast. “His personality hasn’t been so that he can step up, make a strong statement and have people believe that it’s coming from his heart.

“Last year about Week 12, I turned over the offensive motivational speech to Eli and he was gung-ho to do it, but he was uncomfortable doing it. I think a lot of it had to do with vets being around – myself, Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress. He didn’t feel like his voice was going to be strong enough and it showed. Sometimes it was almost comical the way that he would say things.”

Manning responded a couple of days ago and, I confess, what I find amusing is not what Manning said, but how many media outlets portrayed Manning as “firing back,”(the phrase used both by Newsday and the New York Post), or, in the words of the Daily News “One day after Hurricane Eli smashed into the mouth of Tiki Barber,” as if Manning hit Tiki where it hurts. This was a common theme both in the New York media and on ESPN, which made much of Manning coming heavy in response to Tiki’s comments.

Manning’s response:

I guess I was just happy for Tiki that he made a smooth transition into the media world,” Manning said. “It will be interesting to see if he has anything else to say [about anyone] besides the Giants and what his comments will be on that. I’m not going to lose any sleep over what Tiki has to say.
“I guess I could have questioned his leadership skills last year, calling out the coach and having articles about him retiring in the middle of the season saying he lost the heart. As a quarterback, you’re reading your running back has lost the heart to play the game and it’s about the 10th week, I can see that a little bit at times. I’m not going to get concerned and I’m going to go out and play ball.”

A couple of points here. One, what Tiki said strikes me – as a faithful Giants fan and regular viewer of their games – as obviously true. I can’t speak for what went on in the locker-room, but Manning’s on-field demeanor is low-key to the point of painful to watch. I don’t need Manning to be a gesticulating wild man like his brother, but it’s not just that Eli’s a quiet guy – already unusual for a field general. It’s that he seems to visibly sulk when things start to go poorly. In fact, I can’t remember a high-profile QB (I didn’t say “good,”) with body language as bad as Manning’s. Now, I tend to think stuff like body language and leadership is over-rated. But, if you are going to be a team leader, and you’re not going to be visible about it with gestures and words, you exhibit leadership by performance. And, in that department, Manning’s been thoroughly mediocre, despite having been surrounded by a) very good skill position players his first three years in the league and b) especially at running back, where Tiki performed at a Hall of Fame level between 2004 and 2006.

But, OK, Manning wants to defend himself. That’s fine. And, in fact, on his radio show on Tuesday, Barber credited Manning with responding to Tiki, saying he thought that was a good sign. Pretty gracious of Tiki.

But, the substance of Manning’s remarks were pretty lame, if you ask me.  Yes, Manning could have questioned Tiki’s leadership skills last year. Except that as a promising season dissolved in a torrent of injuries to key starters, Barber was the only player to continue to perform at a high level and, in the final regular season game, with a playoff berth on the line, single-handedly carried his team into the post-season (Tiki rushed for 234 yards and 3 touchdowns). Furthermore, I don’t have a problem with a player calling out a coach, especially when that coach has made a habit of throwing his own players under the bus . It’s part and parcel of the culture of football that management is supposed to have wide latitude to do whatever it wants, while the labor force is supposed to quietly fall in line. But, when you’re sacrificing your body as fully as Tiki (and all NFL running backs do each week), you have  a right to be frustrated when you feel like your coach isn’t giving you the best chance to win. That Manning has internalized the double-standard when it comes to public criticism in the NFL is not a sign of leadership. It’s a sign of being a dutiful follower.

I don’t blame Tiki for Eli’s poor performance the second-half of last season, but Manning’s bravado about how he just went out and played (presumably Tiki’s behavior would only have affected the weaker-minded among Eli’s teammates) is belied by the fact that he stunk over the last eight weeks of the season, managing just two games with a QB rating over 70, which is the Mendoza line for QB ratings  (his rating for the season, 77.6, ranked slightly below average for the league).

Among the New York media, Harvey Araton seems to have gotten it right:

The broadcast game is about distinguishing one’s self from the rest of the ever-expanding pack, and Barber knew what he was doing when he announced himself in the studio Sunday night by describing Manning’s leadership qualities as “comical.” Manning answered Barber, his teammate only eight months ago, with a salvo that looked and sounded more sheepish than furious.

Easily impressed, his Giants teammates reacted with a right-on, about-time gusto, which mostly underscored the belief that what Barber said, however self-serving, was essentially true.

People often miss the point when they say that it is not easy for Manning to be the little brother of Peyton, quarterback and pitchman extraordinaire. Performance issues aside, Eli’s problem, born of a personality that is seemingly guileless, transcends genealogy. Forget Peyton; in his three seasons with the Giants, Eli has been everyone’s little brother, alternately picked on and stood up for. In either case, not the most ideal leadership conditions.

If Manning puts together three seasons (or even one) like Barber’s final three, he’llget all the respect that’s coming to him. But, the media’s eagerness to trumpet his respnse to Tiki says more about the sports culture’s antipathy toward people stepping out of line, than it does about Manning’s qualities as a leader. And, don’t get me wrong; as a Giants’ fan, I am invested in Eli stepping up to the plate. But, until he performs where it counts – on the field – Tiki vs. Eli is a mismatch.

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60 Responses to “Eli vs. Tiki”

  1. I never thought Tiki said anything out of line. When you look at Eli, leader isn’t the first word that comes to mind. Montana was a crazy gesticulator, but you knew he was always in control. Eli isn’t close to that. And as a Cowboy fan, I’m banking on it staying that way:)

  2. Why is Eli’s head always hanging down like a 5 year old that just got caught hitting his baby sister?

  3. I was pleased to see guys like Tiki and Ben Roethlisberger (sp?) speak up and say the truth about their former coaches and/or QB’s. I know TSF would probably disagree, but to my mind the pro-management bias exhibited by many writers and commentators in pro sports is even more pronounced than racist biases. Even fans relentlessly continue to side with managers or owners instead of taking the side of the players, who are working stiffs just like they are. (The player may be making 10M a year, but how much do you think the owner is making?!).

  4. I’m a little torn on this one. I gotta say that Eli has benefited a LOT from his last name. I also did not like the move he [well his father, really] made to force his way to NY so he could have the marketing and only potentially meet his brother in a Super Bowl.
    That being said, Tiki pulled IMO a bitch move with the retirement in the middle of the season thing. And to attack Eli with information gained from the locker room is an even bigger bitch move. Like Eli said, it would be refreshing to see if he has anything else to talk about.

    So it’s kind of a tough call who to support, the asshole or the incompetent?

  5. Tiki was absolutely correct in what he said about Coughlin. If Coughlin kept his criticisms internal then Tiki would’ve been out of line but since Coughlin had no problem addressing team issues through the press (including hammering his franchise quarterback) then Tiki should be able to as well.

    I definitely agree that Eli is showing more signs of following then leading.

  6. Tiki shouldn’t have waited till he was gone to take up his beef. This is similar to Bill Parcells move on T.O. T.O., one of the most honest players in the game, said funny how he’s saying these things now but didn’t say them when he was here!!!

    That said Eli is a little bich, just like his older brother. The John Elway move he pulled on draft day was out of line and his sense of entitlement is ridiculus. Let’s be honest if he wasn’t white with the last name Manning he wouldn’t even be in the NFL!

  7. They were both in the wrong to me. Tiki shouldn’t have said something so personal about his former teammates. I understand he’s in the booth right now, but if you’re going to talk about lockeroom stuff, don’t say something negative now that you’re out of there. I never liked that, regardless whether or not what he said was true.

    Eli’s quote though, was hilarious. Tiki Barber wasn’t playign hard at the end of the season? Does Eli have any idea who saved his butt from being in even worse shape? Does Eli have any idea who carried that team? That was a completely false and comical statement by him–laugh at Tiki for acting like a child, but you can’t insult his dedication on the field–no one on that team was anywhere near his level.

  8. You mean, Jay, that you wouldn’t take a QB with Manning’s record in college just because he’s white and his name is Manning? Give me a break. He has stunk so far in the pros, and his ultimatum to SD was bush league, but his record in college definitely made him a top draft pick.

  9. Sweet Jones Says:

    Jweiler,

    I’m glad someone wrote about this, and I think a lot of these pundits out there owe Michael Irvin an apology.

    Because when the Tiki retirement talk first started during the season last year, I distinctly remember Michael Irvin being the first one to say that Tiki’s actions would be interpreted as ‘quitting on the team’ within the locker room, and that his teammates would come to question whether Tiki was more interested in a post NFL career or the games at hand. He also questioned whether Barber hurt himself as a leader and role model for the younger teammates.

    Irvin was roundly criticized by Barber and the ‘We Love Tiki’ Society within the NFL pundit world and the Irvin haters. How dare this loud Kneegrow question the ‘Talk of New York’. Why, everybody loves Tiki! ‘Ultimate character guy’ Michael Irvin was criticized for being jealous and dumb, and Irvin’s moral shortcomings were used to attack his point.

    To his credit, Irvin, who for all his faults as a human is IMO the BEST at having his finger on the pulse of NFL locker room moods and WHY, stuck with his guns.

    And now, 8 months later, the QB of the team comes out with the EXACT same charge. And I’m sure Eli will face the same charges from the ‘Tiki’s So Articulate’ folks.

    Just keep that in mind next time someone wonders why people believe Irvin should still be on the air talking about football.

  10. Actually Jay Goober, I think Manning would have made the league no matter what. He was dominant in high school down her in New Orleans, and he was good in college. Being a Manning helped, but he can still play. Whether he can be a star in the NFL is another story.

  11. i just like how 234 yards is a sign of not having your heart in the final game of the season.

  12. The Giants suck ass. This whole thing is bullshit. The Giants are a bunch of posers who believe their press clippings and fold when the going gets tough. Eli’s done. The litmus test of his leadership WAS, IS and WILL BE the ability to dictate to PLAXICO BURRESS and JEREMY SHOCKEY. These are TWO guys with the big phukkin yaps and the concentration with gaps. They fumble, drop passes, whiff on blocks and serially underperform. If Eli wants to take the Giants to the next level, he and Coughlin and management and whomever else actually cares is going to have to get these two on the same page…

    It so happens that I believe Burress and Shockey are ACTING OUT because they believe they know more about winning big time football games than Manning or Coughlin or anyone else in Joisey. Thing is – they might be right. However, until that is proven, they need to transfer the heat, passion, focus, energy and effectiveness of those Miami offseason workouts to the Giants camp and those big regular season games – and if they won’t follow ELI (doubt it), they need to convert him to their side.

    The Giants are the most frustrating offensive team in the league. If they would just once put Shockey and Burress on the same side of the field, they’d see how easy life could be – but they won’t do it. I went to the Colts-Giants game last year and was pissed to the highest of pissed-tivity as they led the Colts play a smurf Cover-2. Something’s gotta give in New York. If Eli cannot step up and get those guys on his side (by manning the phukkk up – pun intended), it’s not gonna happen. The Giants management has too much invested in Eli and Coughlin to start listening to Shockey and Burress complain about the offensive conservatism that haunts this team.

    The Giants should be smashing the dog shit out of most teams they play. They’re not.

    BTW – I don’t think what Barber did was cool. A couple of things: In some respects, he really owes the Giants. He was not an elite player coming out of UVA. He was a random-ass 3rd down back until the Giants coaches taught him how to hang on the ball. Also, as someone with an inside track – you’d think he’d want to mentor Eli (even from the booth) rather than burn bridges just to announce his emergence. All in all, I think Barber’s quote AND Eli’s punk ass retort were PAR for Course PUNANI moves by a weak ass franchise with delusions of grandeur.

    These bums need to snap out of it.

    None of this pansy shit would ever happen in Pittsburgh.

  13. By the way, none of what I’ve posted is meant to suggest that Barber was not HOF quality and a damn G as a PLAYER post fumble-itis.

  14. Mark,

    How many big wins did Eli have? How many SEC titles did he win? Being white doesn’t have anything to do with it. He was just an OK quarterback in college. Being a Manning, though, pushed him into the #1 spot. How many times did you hear analysts mention his “pedigree?” What is he, Secretariot?

  15. Diallo,
    “How many times did you hear analysts mention his “pedigree?” What is he, Secretariot?”

    LMAO!! You caught me off guard with that one….classic….LMAO!

  16. Diallo –

    That’s crazy to assess the skillz of a QB at Mississippi based on his ability to win the SEC title. Only powerhouse teams win that title. I don’t even recall if Peyton ever did that…we know he never beat Florida. You have to have a SQUAD to win the SEC and Mississippi never has a squad. Manning had some big wins over Alabama, LSU and others – but you had to watch his games. He seemed like a different guy – perhaps because he was on a smaller stage. Can’t call it…but to say he sucked because he didn’t win the SEC is like saying Randle-El was a buster at Indiana because they couldn’t get it together to beat Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin in a single season OR that Seneca Wallace sucked because Iowa State couldn’t get over the hump against Oklahoma and Texas.

  17. Thanks Miranda. I’ll be here all week. Try the veal:)

  18. He was just an OK quarterback in college.

    Um, no. 61% completion percentage, 9,949 yards, 81TDs and 34INTs in 37 games. 3rd in Heisman voting his senior season. While playing on a sorry ass team in the BEST conference in America. He was a little more than “OK,” don’t ya think?

    He has been an “OK” QB in his pro career, than I can agree with; a disappointment for the #1 pick, definitely. And I think it’s only going to get worse for him this year, as he lost his best asset, Tiki. But he’s middle-of-the-pack in the NFL right now, and that ain’t too bad, relatively speaking.

  19. I never said he sucked, I said he was OKAY. OKAY does not equal greatness. If he were great, the Rebs would’ve at least made it to the SEC title game, no? Great players elevate their teams. Look at the ’03-’04 Hurricanes. How many 1st round picks on that squad? Brock Berlin was an OKAY QB, and the Canes finished 10-2. A great QB would’ve led them to the BCS game, at least, because the two they loss could’ve have been won.

  20. Stats don’t impress me. Wins do. See my above post.

  21. As much as I don’t like Eli, I don’t think he’s getting a fair shake. He’s been a pretty decent QB as far as QB standards go. I mean, if you look at it, most QBs in the NFL SUCK, and Eli is at least one of the decent ones. Has he won the big game? No. Has he elevated his team? No. Is he so far a busta s a #1 pick? Yes. But I think he still has a chance to be a good QB, and his numbers aren’t horrendous.

    He definitely isn’t in the Harrington/Carr area. I put him right around the Roethlisberger and Rivers crew as near the 13-18 range in terms of starting QBs in the NFL.

  22. Of course, as we’ve seen with Michael Vick, it’s not wins that matter. According to most fans, wins have nothing to do with how good a QB is (unless your name is Roethlisberger, of course).

  23. Look at the ‘03-’04 Hurricanes. How many 1st round picks on that squad?

    Well that’s my point — Ole Miss didn’t have Miami’s talent. They had Eli, and that’s it. One man cannot carry an entire team, right?

    Stats don’t impress me. Wins do. See my above post.

    Ah, a graduate of the Joe Morgan School of Thought, I see; “wins” are a by-product of an entire team’s performance, and “statistics” seek to measure the performance of each individual within the team. Agree?

  24. Diallo @ #17 – LOL!!!

  25. Diallo, name your Top 5 QBs in the league right now. I’ll go first:

    1) Manning
    2) Brady
    3) Palmer
    4) McNabb
    5) Brees

  26. Friedman,

    Any other position on the field gets a pass when it comes to wins. As far as the QB is concerned, there really is nothing else to measure them by. Is Fran Tarkenton a better QB than Troy Aikman? The stats say so. The rings don’t.

    Brady
    Manning
    Palmer
    Brees
    Punk Ass McNabb

    Yes my hate for the Eagles is irrational.

  27. Friedman,
    If stats were the only thing that matters Brady wouldn’t be on that list. Manning, McNabb, Palmer, Brees and Bulger have all consistently (last 2 or 3 years) put up better numbers than Brady. By the numbers, Brady is in the same category as Jake Delhomme. If that’s the case Joe Montana barely deserves mention as one of the top QBs all-time.

  28. Damn Diallo – why you hatin’ on Elijah??

    The Ole Miss Rebels in 2003 finished 7-1 in the SEC West, same record as LSU which finished 13-1 and blasted Oklahoma in the Sugar. That’s pretty damned good. The next rung above Ole Miss in that division of the SEC was a team which has put a ton of players in the NFL over the past five seasons. I can’t recall another Ole Miss player other than Manning to make a splash.

    By the way, the beat Ole Miss 17-14. That same team SMASHED Georgia 34-13; dismantled Arkansas 55-24; and befuddled the Sooners in a game which was not as close as the score indicated (21-14). The Ole Miss game was close.

    Some of the players on that LSU team: 4 QBs who could ball: Marcus Randall, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Flynn and Matt Mauck; 3 RBs who could ball: Joseph Addai, Justin Vincent and Alley Broussard; Wide Receivers MICHAEL CLAYTON, DEVERY HENDERSON, DWAYNE BOWE, CRAIG DAVIS, SKYLER GREEN…

    Don’t even get me started on the DEFENSE: Marquise Hill, Marcus Spears, Chad Lavalais, Randall Gay, Travis Daniels, Corey Webster, LaRon Landry.

    I don’t see how Eli could have been much better than he was that season. He arguably gave the best team in the nation they’re toughest game of the season.

  29. Diallo,

    You rank Eli 2nd?

    I totally misread your previous comments….

  30. Diallo,
    Will do…LOL!!!

  31. Ap, I never said stats were the “only” thing that mattered; I said that winning was NOT the only thing that mattered. It’s a mixture of the two, but to say that “wins” are the only way to judge a QB is insane. Ergo, Rex Grossmann.

  32. In college, Eli won AND he had the stats. Next topic.

  33. I feel like the kid who let the mouse out in class and stood back and watched the mayhem! By the way Diallo, my comment on Manning being white was simply in response to Jay Goober saying Manning wouldn’t be in the NFL if he wasn’t white with the name of Manning. Regarding his pro career thus far, hindsight is 20/20 of course, but as Temple3 and others have indicated, his college career definitely warranted him being picked high in the draft.

  34. In terms of on-field performance, Eli’s going to be judged not against the average QB (that’s what he’s been so far in the NFL) but against the circumstances in which he came into the league. It’s not merely that he was the No. 1 pick. It’s that the Giants passed up on two other QBs (Rivers and Roethlisberger) who, even at the time, many felt would be better. And, on top of that, the Giants gave up two picks for Eli (in addition to swapping with the Chargers on draft day – the Rivers pick) and one of those picks turned into Shawne Merriman. That’s why average, in Eli’s case, is not good enough because it means that draft day 2004 was a long-term disaster for the Giants, unless Eli significantly raises his game.

    As far as what Tiki said – there’s always a bottom line in sports – on-the-field performance. Eli can prove Tiki wrong by playing ball. If he can’t do that well, then he’s just whining.

    Temple3 – I agree with you – the giants have been less than the sum of their parts for several years now. That, to me, is on the coach.

  35. Jw, nobody is claiming Eli has been anything but average. Eli has been a disappointment thus far in his NFL career. Not a newsflash to anyone … why pick on the guy?

  36. Did Friedman just advise us not to pick on someone?

    Well cotdamn.

  37. Friedman

    I’m not “picking on” him. I am just explaining why “average” or “decent” is not good enough in his case. And, as a fan, I think I share the sentiments of about a million other Giants’ fans that he’s been a serious disappointment so far.

  38. But, I like I said earlier, Eli was good in high school and college.

  39. Well it’s not like Eli funded a dog fighting organization and killed them off if they didn’t perform, is all I’m saying . . .

  40. Eli gets nowhere near the hate Vick used to get for being a number one pick with a 50 percent completion percentage. Despite Vick’s wins. Just thought I’d throw that out there.

    Of course the Falcons did give up LT to get Vick, so that might have been a bad move.

  41. Damn Friedman, you must have a Masters in Prickology.

  42. “Of course the Falcons did give up LT to get Vick, so that might have been a bad move.”

    Maybe just a wee bit. I was living in San Diego at the time and I swear the people were INCREDULOUS when that went down. Who knew?

  43. LOL JB

  44. Friedman says,”Well it’s not like Eli funded a dog fighting organization and killed them off if they didn’t perform, is all I’m saying . . .”

    Friedman, in the political business, we call that stepping on your story…

  45. The Chargers got LT and Drew Brees w/ the picks in the Vick trade.

  46. “I don’t see how Eli could have been much better than he was that season.”

    He could’ve beaten LSU for starters:)

    OK, OK, you’ve beaten me down. Eli wasn’t OKAY in college, he was GOOD. But he still wasn’t GREAT. He still was a product of hype. I don’t hate Eli, but I’m not lighting a candle for his Ole Miss career either.

  47. Jweiler @34:

    I agree with you – and the implications of that for ELI are TREMENDOUS. Shockey and Burress are NOT down with Coughlin’s program. He does not attack the defense enough to satisfy them – and it affects their play. I believe, on a certain level, that Eli may feel like he’s caught in the middle. I’m guessing on this but I think it might go like this:

    Archie sees the writing on the wall and does NOT want his boy playing for Marty where his career (really his statistical legacy) would be ruined handing off to LT 50 times a games.

    Little Elijah is uncomfortable with the whole thing and comes to New York and wants to prove himself a loyal guy to his new team and especially the management that went out on a limb to get him.

    Little Elijah inherits a leadership vacuum which was not filled by Barber or Strahan (great performers, terrible off-field/locker room leaders from a team cohesion/focus standpoint). Enter two UBER talented offensive players who would rather WORK out in MIAMI than work out with him. Can you imagine Eli in Miami with all those dudes working on his game…he’d come back a new man – but he won’t go…it’s not the family profile.

    The two Miami workout guys could make Eli’s life easier if the coaches would change the game plan – but they’re old school. They’re not gonna change. They’re too busy drafting relatives (albeit good ones). So Little Elijah is stuck in the middle – AFRAID to offend management and argue for a more aggressive game plan and also AFRAID to get his two remaining offensive superstars in line by demanding that they toe the company line.

    Something’s gotta give – and right now, the tension on that team can be cut with a knife. The keys to the future of the Giants (as they’re presently constituted) is figuring out a way to get Shockey and Burress to concentrate for 16 games each season. Hell, if Burress could do it, he’d be a Steeler. And if Shockey could do it, he’d be Tony Gonzalez.

  48. Consider the difference in the relationship between Roethlisberger and Bettis.

  49. T3, Jweiler, or anyone else,
    Why did the Giants keep Coughlin? It was obvious that he could not keep the team together on the field, let alone in the locker room. There is no way he has any respect from the players on the team.

    Eli is an headcase and needs either a coach or veteran player has to be the one to take it up the next level. Coughlin can’t do it and I haven’t seen much from Gilbride that would indicate that he can bring Eli along.

  50. umm… Peyton Manning had 2 very average seasons statistically (according to today’s standards) his first 2 seasons as the starting quarterback. You want Eli to work miracles in an offense that was a run based offense? 24 touchdown passes each of the last 2 seasons is nothing to sneeze at, and that offense sucks with or without Tiki.

    Tiki was wrong in doing what he did last season. He basically turned the last half of the season into a farewell tour, after allegedly (we know that word needs to be put on there) being a ringleader of the pissing and moaning about how hard Tom Coughlin runs his practices.

    I’m not a Giants fan (thank god), but if I were I’d be pissed at the circus their training camp has become the last 2 seasons, and I’d want Tom Coughlin to be fired at this point. Michael Strahan is a joke of a teammate (if the reports are accurate) and so was Tiki Barber (if the reports were accurate).

    Yeah… the GM that pulled off the Vick for Brees/LT trade should get “Executive of the Century” instead of just the year.

  51. Top 5 QB’s in the CFL:

    1. Dave Dickinson
    2. Ricky Ray
    3. Anthony Calvillo
    4. Kevin Glenn
    5. Henry Burris

    Any questions?

  52. Babar:

    Yeah, w/ your CFL knowledge and my being a Chiefs fan, I wanna know. Can Casey Printers play?

  53. Tiki is a clown that panders to the media (which he’s now a part of). He DID quit on the Giants last year. HE DID create contraversy when announcing his retirement which pretty much usurped ‘Elijah’s’ ability to lead.

    Now I’m no Eli fan (I hate the Giants), but I gotta, begrudginly side with Eli on this.

  54. LOL at the notion of Tiki “quitting” on the G-men last year. Dude single handedly carried that team through the second half of the season.

    If Tiki’s season last year was the season of a quitter, let’s see more guys play like that then.

  55. JB,

    Yeah man, Printers can play. Although, I was surprised to hear from some source that he’s fighting for the starting position because last year I remember he shit the bed in pre-season and has been on the practice roster forever. I don’t know shit about Huard or Croyle, but I know Printers is a true gamer with great accuracy and some decent wheels.
    I hope they give him a fighting chance this year, he’s only 26 and could help the team out for many a year.

    He might be the next Jeff Garcia. And by that I mean he might become the next successful former-CFL QB in the big show.
    Word.

  56. Hah,

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2991036

    Looks like Huard got the nod. The ESPN article didn’t even mention Printers, so I’m assuming he wasn’t even close to getting the job.

    Regardless, Printers is a solid QB who had great success in the CFL.

  57. While what Tiki said certainly looks true, it seems to me that Tiki broke the locker room code (which I believe in). If he just said that Manning didn’t display leadership characteristics, then that is one thing, but when he dips into actual situations that included behaviors in past huddles– then I think that Tiki crossed the line to benefit his new career. Eli definitely should have taken the high road instead of sounding petty in return.

    PS: I have no idea why Coughlin was aked to return this year.

  58. A sports discussion finally.
    One involving that bitch Eli, even better.

    As a Charger fan, one of the few that would admit to even during the (many) bad years, I didn’t want them to get Eli. Even before he pulled his bitch move, I thought he came in as #1 based on the name. Somebody listed his stats… 61% in college? That’s pathetic. Vince Young was far higher than that in his last year. Plus he dominated the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP game like I’ve never seen any football player ever do. That has to rate a bit better than playing the eventual national champ tough during the middle of the regular season. VY didn’t go #1. That is just a recent example.

    Eli
    ATT CMP CMP % YDS TD INT
    481 279 58 3,401 21 15

    VY
    CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
    212 325 3036 65.2 9.34 75 26 10 13 163.95

    Based on the stats, you tell me who did better in college and deserved to go #1 overall. Maybe this is apples and oranges comparing VY to Eli. But I mostly did it to show that VY was more polished as a thrower in college, and has mobility. Tell he didn’t go #1 based on the name.

    Eli is a bitch, and for #1 overall… should be better.
    For the right to get him they gave the Chargers #4 overall (Rivers, Pro-bowl alt), #11 the next season (Merriman… pro-bowl), a 3rd rounder (Nate Kaeding, pro-bowl) and a fifth rounder who was turned into Roman Oben, solid Tackle, starter til he got hurt and McNeill locked down the left side. I think I missed a pick in there, but you should get the point. Eli was overvalued, did not deserve to go #1, did not deserve Heisman talk in college, and the stupid trade made by Accorsi set back the Giant franchise. But as a Charger fan, I can now appreciate all Eli has done for my team. He’s still a bitch though.

    Also, Chargers didn’t get LT and Brees with ATL’s picks. LT was #5 (ATL’s pick), Brees was first pick of the second round (32… I don’t think the Browns were back in the league), that was the Charger’s own pick.

  59. F Eli retarded looking @ss. Fool can’t even read defenses (how the he11 is that when his dad and brother played or play in the NFL). Also the punk is scared to stay in the pocket and take a hit.

  60. [...] body slam by his former teammate Tiki Barber was meaningful. It was far from that. Over at The Starting Five, they kicked off a great conversation about how the sports media does what they always do – and [...]

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